Improving Public Perception of Keeping Snakes

[Willowy]

the overriding question/cloud is how can we expect the general public to support exotic animal ownership when we as a community won't come together to support it ourselves?

The problem for me is, I DO want some regulations put on the owners of large dangerous animals. If my neighbor has a pet tiger, I want---at least!---someone inspecting that enclosure a couple times a year to make sure it's adequate, and to make sure they're feeding the animal properly. I can't support those who want no regulation on exotic animal keeping. A lot of people can't keep dogs properly, what makes me think they'll be any better with a tiger? I won't say that private ownership should be completely banned but I do want some oversight. I feel like this is common sense and not part of some greater conspiracy to end pet keeping.

I don't want to get eaten by my neighbor's pet!

Now, I'm not worried about the big snakes because the weather here doesn't support escaped tropical animals, but I can see why it would be concerning somewhere warmer.

I also don't think anyone should feel obligated to change their personal style because of public perception . I mean, I'm about as vanilla as anyone can be but I don't think everyone has to be.

[piedpipper]

I don't believe you can compare keeping large constrictors to keeping a tiger... under proper care and knowledgeable handling I see no reason why they should be under strict regulation. As someone mentioned before, throwing the large constrictor keepers under the bus is exactly what HSUS wants. If there are strict regulations on them and they have to be inspected... very few people will keep them and the large constrictor hobby will begin dying out.

Now I am not saying there should not be SOME regulation about it. In tropical areas like Florida, I can see the sense in having to obtain a permit (it shouldn't be too difficult to get though) and microchip your animal to ensure no impulse buyers get into a retic or burm with no prior research.

Also, if you are worried about an adult human getting eaten by a large constrictor it leads me to believe you do not know much about them.
The "killer snake" stereotype is exactly what we are trying to debunk... not propagate.

[gaitedappy]

I don't believe you can compare keeping large constrictors to keeping a tiger... under proper care and knowledgeable handling I see no reason why they should be under strict regulation. As someone mentioned before, throwing the large constrictor keepers under the bus is exactly what HSUS wants. If there are strict regulations on them and they have to be inspected... very few people will keep them and the large constrictor hobby will begin dying out.

Now I am not saying there should not be SOME regulation about it. In tropical areas like Florida, I can see the sense in having to obtain a permit (it shouldn't be too difficult to get though) and microchip your animal to ensure no impulse buyers get into a retic or burm with no prior research.

Also, if you are worried about an adult human getting eaten by a large constrictor it leads me to believe you do not know much about them.
The "killer snake" stereotype is exactly what we are trying to debunk... not propagate.

I have to agree with this. Plus, if the large constrictors are strictly regulated and require home checks, what is to stop those restrictions to moving onto other species as well. With things like these regulations only want to go further and become more strict, as reptile keepers we need to stand united to show the public we are not nutcase a keeping man eating animals.

[Willowy]

But those are the exact arguments that tiger keepers make---"if you agree with regulations on keeping tigers, what's going to keep them from making regulations on housecats!!1!1" Well, because housecats aren't tigers. I'm kind of sick of the propaganda and alarmism in the whole situation, on both sides. Let's use a little common sense. If enclosure inspections would discourage some people from keeping large snakes, maybe those people shouldn't be keeping large snakes.

And, no, I don't think large snakes are a danger to most adults (adults engaging in unsafe handling practices, yes) but children have been killed so clearly some people aren't so great at protecting their children or keeping their snakes contained. Just a little something to make sure that anyone who's keeping a 20-foot snake has half a clue, ya know?

I feel like this is on the same level of requiring inspections for wiring so the structure doesn't burn down. I don't want my house to burn down because my neighbor wasn't good at wiring, and I don't want his kids killed by his ineptness. I want those inspections and I don't care if he wants to squeak about his freedom to wire his own house without any oversight.

Speaking of improving public perception---I think supporting common-sense regulations would at least help people think that snake owners aren't totally off-the-wall.

[Rob]

Are we really comparing tigers and snakes? I can control a adult burm/retic with a hook or a roll of paper towels. Try that with a tiger, apples and oranges.
But if something like a training course made it possible for large snakes to be legal all over the states again I'd be all for it.


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[piedpipper]

Are we really comparing tigers and snakes? I can control a adult burm/retic with a hook or a roll of paper towels. Try that with a tiger, apples and oranges.
But if something like a training course made it possible for large snakes to be legal all over the states again I'd be all for it.


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Exactly.
Willowy - I am not saying we should have no regulations but keeping a large constrictor is NOWHERE NEAR as dangerous as keeping something like a tiger or even a bobcat for that matter. I would also be all for having a little training course or something of that nature - perhaps an online one - to educate large snake keepers just getting into the hobby.
I understand your point - but I don't think as much regulation as you're suggesting is really necessary.

Just to put it into perspective: "For every one person killed by a large snake, 26 people are killed by dogs, 65 by angry cows, and 97 people die in horse related accidents."
That is from a 2012 survey from the Chicago Herpetological Society. Should we also require inspections and permits to own cows and dogs?

[Willowy]

Yes, and 400 children are killed by their parents/guardians every year, and 20 toddlers drown in buckets every year. Snakes are far from the biggest threat. But of course you also have to take opportunity and population into account. Very few people are killed by tigers in the US, but that's because there aren't many tigers. It definitely doesn't mean you want your neighbor keeping a tiger in a chicken wire enclosure in his yard. Every child is around their parents/guardians. A lot of kids are around dogs and buckets. There are a lot of cows and horses too.

Very few children are around large snakes, even fewer around loose large snakes. So what percentage of children who are around loose large snakes get killed or injured? 50%? 10%? I have no idea, but it's probably proportionately more than those who are killed or injured by dogs or parents. There's something like 80 million dogs and 90 million parents in the US, so there's far more opportunity for something to happen.

And, yes, there sort of is a "inspection and permit" process to own a cow, in that you can't keep cows in town. You have to have a certain amount of land per cow. They don't just let everyone who thinks cows are cute keep a cow in their backyard. And most towns do have vaccination and licensing requirements for dogs. Maybe no inspection process but they know who that dog belongs to.

I don't really know what the answer is, just that I absolutely cannot agree with the people who think there should be NO regulations.

[Sensei345]

So, this thread was started to help come up with ideas as to how we can band together and help bring down the misconception that snakes are horribly dangerous pets to keep, simply because its a snake. Now we are discussing as to whether there should be regulations or not and if so what types of regulations......seems we kinda went off-topic here people.

As for ideas as to how we can help to bring down the "every snake is bad" stimuli, I would think that using social media would be a good start as someone had mentioned before. People spend more time on facebook and twitter now than they do actually watching the news. So why not make some memes using different species in the pictures and putting in something about a misconception with said species and what the truth is. It may also be possible to have it so that each meme is linked to some website, say this one for example, that has a massive quantity of knowledge on these animals and many experienced keepers/breeders that people can ask questions about them.

Informing the masses about the reality of keeping these beautiful animals would be, in my opinion, step one to debunking a lot of the myth's that surround them.

[bcr229]

So, this thread was started to help come up with ideas as to how we can band together and help bring down the misconception that snakes are horribly dangerous pets to keep, simply because its a snake. Now we are discussing as to whether there should be regulations or not and if so what types of regulations......seems we kinda went off-topic here people.

As for ideas as to how we can help to bring down the "every snake is bad" stimuli, I would think that using social media would be a good start as someone had mentioned before. People spend more time on facebook and twitter now than they do actually watching the news. So why not make some memes using different species in the pictures and putting in something about a misconception with said species and what the truth is. It may also be possible to have it so that each meme is linked to some website, say this one for example, that has a massive quantity of knowledge on these animals and many experienced keepers/breeders that people can ask questions about them.

Informing the masses about the reality of keeping these beautiful animals would be, in my opinion, step one to debunking a lot of the myth's that surround them.

THANK YOU!!! If you want to debate regulations go start your own thread. I want to focus on tactics individual snake-keepers can use since people with no exposure to snakes don't know the difference between a ball python and a Burmese python.

[piedpipper]

Very true. Sorry about that, I got a bit carried away on that tangent.

And great idea sensei! If more people posted about their snakes in a way that non-snake keepers could understand (as opposed to feeding pictures and such) then they may begin to understand WHY someone would want to keep a snake. This is something I have found very difficult to explain to people. Some people just flat out don't get why anyone would want to keep a scaly pet.

I try to explain that just because you don't really pet the snakes per se and they don't have fur doesn't disqualify them from being a pet. I mean why does anyone keep fish, frogs, lizards, turtles, or practically anything else without fur. They're fun to watch, fun to hold, and many can be quite beautiful just to look at if nothing else.