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Pretzel's Tub & A Couple of Questions
Pretzel hatched on 8/13/15, and I picked him up from the breeder on 1/30/16. He was 128.6 grams when I got him, but lost 7.4 grams in the first week I had him. The last time he ate before I picked him up was 1/28/16. With me, he turned down f/t hoppers twice, a couple days apart. He last ate a live mouse on 2/7/16; I would estimate a little bit bigger than a hopper but I didn't weigh it or anything. I plan to feed him again on Sunday 2/14/16. (The breeder was feeding him once a week so I thought it would be good to get him to eat for 2-3 weeks in a row before I move up to every 5 days.)
His tub is a 116qt sterilite bin with holes drilled in the front and lid. I know that sounds way too big but
- it's really hard to find info about how big the tub should be if you don't know where to look. I spent almost a year doing research on BP's before getting one and all I found before joining this forum was that "the length plus the width should be equal to or greater than the length of the snake". Either way, he's in a 116qt now and I have bigger problems to deal with.
- the dimensions of the tub are about 32 in long, 19 in wide, and 14 in deep. It equates to approximately a 30 gallon tank. Too big for a little guy like him, but as he grows he'll be glad for the room. I eventually plan to build a custom enclosure with wood/PVC sides, 3" or bigger PVC pipe tunnels, and a plexiglass front, but money's not unlimited and I want to have a good idea of how much room specifically Pretzel will need as an adult before I spend that much money on something like that.
If it's super important to downgrade the tub size for stress reduction purposes, I will, but as long as he has otherwise good husbandry with enough hides, and he eats, I'm not seeing how the extra room hurts. I must sound really snippy talking about this, but I've had other people on other websites & in person chew me out for the oversized tub when I just wanted to make sure he had plenty of room. I've seen a lot of breeders and such using racks and tubs that are basically just slightly large hides for their animals, and all they have room to do is sit there; That's not going to be any of my animals. Ball pythons' natural habitats are much larger than the tanks and tubs we keep our pets in. I know I have to adapt some things and invent on the fly if I'm going to do it this way, but if it's not doing any harm I'd rather him have more room than he needs, than not enough.
Inside the tub, I'm using aspen shavings for bedding. The depth varies because it was originally about 1-2" deep, but when I first brought him home all he wanted to do was burrow. So I used the rest of the 24qt bag of aspen I bought to make a nicely sized hill on one half of the tub, that he could burrow in to his heart's content. Meaning that there's now an entire 24qt bag of aspen in his tub. He's not burrowing as much anymore, so when I clean his enclosure I may cut down on bedding a good bit. (It also takes up some of that Intimidating extra room, though, so I haven't completely decided.)
Aside from that, for the hotspot I'm using a Zoo Med UTH (30-40 gal size) with a JumpStart thermostat- I may get the thermo replaced as I've heard JumpStarts tend to cause issues. In the meantime I've been checking his temps and humidity several times a day, not just the numbers but also feeling the hotspot directly just in case my meters and such are inaccurate. The hotspot is sitting around 90F, sometimes varying a couple of degrees. The ambient temps I'm maintaining with a spaceheater in the room until I can get a ceramic heat emitter and another thermostat, and I'm measuring it with dials from Petco that I will soon be replacing. I haven't figured out how to offer a consistent gradient, but ambient temp is floating around 80F (ie. never lower than 75 or higher than 85). Humidity is pretty consistently staying at 70%, though it fluctuates a little with the ambient temps.
For hides, he's got 2 actual hides and 3 cardboard ones. The warmest hide is a bamboo log half-buried in substrate, right over the UTH. The other hide is a small plastic tub that I put a hole in the side of with a hole saw and sanded down the edges. It's stuffed with sphagnum moss on top of a bit of bedding and I open it up to add a little bit of water every couple of days. The other hides are a cardboard Bisquick box that I cut in half and set on its side, on top of the humid hide, and then paper towel tubes. He also spent a lot of time climbing the sides of the tub at first, so I figured he would enjoy having multiple levels. He has definitely enjoyed the tubes, being that they're the smallest things in there. His water bowl is also a plastic tub, about 13 x 5 in wide and 2 in deep. I keep the lid off of it, of course.
He's the only one in the tub (of course), and I've handled him about 4 times so far- 2 times because he tried to climb out and up the shelf when I opened the tub to check on him, and 2 times just long enough to weigh him and take a few pictures. I've had other reptiles before, but he's the only one right now. (At least, he's the only reptile here until my mother brings home her sulcata tortoise, but I don't fancy ever letting them meet each other. The tortoise currently fits in the palm of my hand.)
Pictures of the setup to come, please be patient. I'll make another post here discussing my possible bioactive plans after I get pictures up.
My questions are:
- Considering that he's thoroughly disinterested in warmed (through water submersion in a Ziploc) f/t mice, how do I switch him from live to frozen? There are only about 2 local places that sell live mice, and Petco I have to lie to because they don't like to sell them as feeders. But it's also not cost-effective to breed my own, unless I just really have to.
- Ever since he ate on Sunday night, he's been in his humid hide, actively hiding from me. He sticks his head out at night, but never fully comes out, and as soon as he sees a light come on or me open the tub, he tucks back in. It's Thursday now, so shouldn't he have had time to digest already? And he just finished shedding before I picked him up from the breeder, not even two weeks ago. So what's up with that? Someone else said it was a sign that he's getting more comfortable in the new environment, but I don't see how that makes sense.
- He lost 7.4 grams from Sunday 1/31 to Sunday 2/7, about 6% of his body weight. Could this have been because he'd just eaten 2 days prior when I picked him up from the breeder? Or do I need to take him to the vet?
- If I really need to do something about the extra height, I feel like going bioactive would be the best decision. The plants and substrate would both take up a considerable amount of room, and I originally wanted to do bioactive anyway, it just cost more than I was prepared to spend. Is it something I need to do? Or can it wait for now?
- The substrate in a bioactive enclosure would probably be too thick for a UTH to provide much heat. How does one provide belly heat in a bioactive enclosure?
Happy herping.
Pretzel - Chocolate morph Ball Python, 128.6 grams. (Gotcha Date 1/30/16, Hatch Date 8/13/15)
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Re: Pretzel's Tub & A Couple of Questions
I just skimmed through your post but i would say your biggest issue is going to be the size of your tub. Don't blame me you expected . At that size i have them in 15qt tubs. That should last you for a good few months. I have a male and female sitting at 500g in tubs that size with no problem. When he gets that size then you can put him back in the bigger tub. Fyi bps need more floor space than height so a 32\41qt tub (sterilite style) would be better for a full grown male (along with juvenile males and females) and a 41 for a female. I understand you are going to build a custom enclosure but just wanted to add the tub sizes anyway.
Last edited by ItsAllNew2Me!; 02-11-2016 at 03:28 PM.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.
Albert Einstein
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Sounds like you're on the right track. At the size he is currently, I would consider moving him to a 15qt tub with two hides and a waterbowl. While these snakes live in the wild, and we sometimes think "big open spaces out in the wild", BP's usually take up home in old termite mounds or small animal burrows. They like and thrive in very small, tight quarters. The are most comfortable in hides they can barely fit in... when they feel security from the sides and top of the hides against their skin.
If your bp is staying his hide all the time, that means he likes it there. His needs are being met, and he's happy. If he was out and moving around all day long, that would actually be a bad sign. I'm sure if you sat up all night, with little or no lights on, you'd see he comes out of that hide and is checking things out. It's likely the extra empty space in that larger tub does frighten him a little, so he's less likely to come out and explore. You may also find that moving him to a smaller tub will help his feeding as well. Experienced snake keepers will tell you that if they have a snake that is refusing food, one of the most common things that can be done is to put them into a smaller container. Again, the more safe and comfortable the snake feels, the more likely it is to eat.
Being young, if he doesn't eat regularly, he'll likely lose some weight. At 128g, he's about ready to go to f/t rat fuzzies or medium mice, I'd say. Something around 15-20g. Thawing out the frozen in a ziplog bag is correct. i do that until the prey feels soft and not cold. Then I refill the bowl with the hottest tapwater possible, and let the bag soak in that for about 5 minutes. This will really raise the temperature of the prey. I remove the bag from the hot water and immediately remove the prey and offer it to the snake. Some people will use a hair-dryer during this step to really heat up the mouse. You're snake will sense that heat signature and smell that yummy rodent, and BAM!!
0.1 BP - Mojave - Lexi
1.0 Bearded Dragon - Thunder (RIP)
0.1 Bearded Dragon - Lightning
"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle." - G.I. Joe
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IMO a small 6quart tub with just 1 small hide and waterbowl is best for a baby BP that’s a picky eater. they’re like $3-$4 and can be used as a small holding tank later for your BP when u clean it’s regular enclosure. i have 200-plus gram BP's in these currently. it's my new system for babies and they're doing great. i plan on doubling their tub size and adding another hide once they're above 300-plus grams.
i started warming my f/t rodents in a coffee mug directly under a heat lamp for 2-3 minutes. this has been successful for converting most of my BP’s from feeding live to f/t.
and yep, your BP likes it’s hide. there’s the old saying, a hiding BP is a happy BP. what else can u say, some just like to hide.
could the loss of 7.6grams to attributed to bodily discharge? did u notice any poop or pee/urates during that time? the substrate could have soaked up and dried the pee. otherwise 7 days is enough time to digest/metabolize a small meal given a weekly feeding schedule.
we have a fellow forumer here named Kris who built his own bioactive tank/vivarium. it’s really cool. here’s one of his threads: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hings-of-my-bp check it out or PM him. (haven’t seen him on in a while tho.) he even had a DIY thread on building a fogger/humidifier.
RIP Mamba
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