Dog Breeding Ethics

[8_Ball]

My dog is perfectly happy and healthy and has no breathing/snorting issues. My fiance's pug has these issues and she is very tiny and slim at 16 lbs and so does my mom's shi-tzu. Early spay and neuter DOES effect health. If you ever see dogs who get fixed early they all have long, lanky legs from their growth plates in their legs not forming properly and male dogs will not develop larger heads and structure. A quick Google search from vets who are actually current in medicine and knowledgeable would know this! I had one vet tell me to neuter at 5 months old and I never went back in there again. She was obviously not knowledgeable in certain dog breeds and only pushed unnecessary surgeries and SCIENCE DIET which is corn meal and road kill. I'm sorry but for some people to be criticising dog breeds we as snake keepers inbreed snakes and produce snakes with neurological problems daily in our hobby. I promise you if you feed your dog holistic foods and buy from a good breeder there will be less issues. Beef and chicken trigger allergies in most dog breeds not just bullies and dogs cannot stay on the same protien either for too long. All my friends with frenchies who has skin problems switched to duck, rabbit, pheasant, bison, etc have all cleared up 100%. If you read Purina, Iams, science Diet, and all the other common dog foods the first ingredients are corn meal, animal by product, fillers, and grains. My dog foods first ingredients are whole duck, whole rabbit, spinach, blueberries, lentils, and other fruits and veggies.


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[8_Ball]

And grains are VERY bad and not at all natural in a dogs diet that's why most breeds have no tolerance for grains even though they are in 90% of the foods in chain pet stores as cheap fillers.


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[blue roses]

If you really have allergy problems in either your dog or cat try the new foods that contain pumpkin or avacado oil. They really work, and for older dogs are really easy on the digestive tract. I use the one with pumpkin for my 11 year old tibetan spaniel, and the avacado oil food for one of my cats who is allergic to a lot of foods. Grains are not ba, its the type of grains used that are bad. In the wild it has been known for years that wild dogs eat the inners first of grazing animals, so yes they get grain but its the green type like grasses not corn and rice, so if a dog food has grains make sure its the grassy or leafy type then its a balenced food. All meat is not a balenced food. On the subject of dog breeders, how about the pet stores selling mutts as designer breeds, and the stupid people paying up to 2000 for a cockerpoo, or a labradoodle. I have seen dozens of these breeds and none look anything alike. they are not new breeds just mixes that are being offered to the public as new designer breeds. In order to create a new breed there must be some standard and control, but when you try to explain this to people they just can't believe they were taken buy their local pet store. Then people tell you well i have papers for them, but when you look at the papers it says that the pup is registered with the national pet registry, and they will register any breed as a pet, not nessacerilya a purebred. Every dog makes a wonderful pet and every dog deserves a loving home, but its the bilking of the public i find offencive.

[ScottyDsntKnow]

Dog breeding... if you don't have a legit AKC breeder of merit backed bloodline and you don't have hips and heart done at least you should not be breeding period. If you breed doodles and sell them for $thousands you should be ashamed of yourself.

And all :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:es should be allowed to go through at least one heat cycle, males should not be neutered at all or only after 2 years if you absolutely have to.

Having had backyard bred dogs or rescues all my life and then getting into the show dog world... it is night and day. Yes, there are some breeders and owners who are stuck up and snobbish about their purebreds. The majority are not. There can be perfectly happy and healthy mutts or rescues or whatever. But... I personally feel much better buying from a responsible breeder who has all health checks done and a legit pedigree with champion/grand champion AKC dogs going back generations. Also make sure you can meet at LEAST the mother of the puppy you are buying or both parents if you can. Temperment is a big deal and dogs that are shy or scared or fearful should not be bred. I have an AKC Champion Ibizan hound and AKC Champion Irish Wolfhound (who is on his way to a Grand). Both of those I can go back almost 40 years, they all have AKC champions in their lines, the Ibizan Hound has zero health issues going back generations and should live to be 15-16 years old if nothing happens to him. Wolfhounds general life expectancy is 7 years. However, good breeders are trying to extend that and our Wolfhound's line pushes 9-10 years. Also any time there is an issue or question, the breeder is there to help and we have become good friends with them as well. I really hope anyone looking for a puppy that is not set on "rescue or gtfo" will hit up the AKC breeder of Merit registry and find a good breeder of the dog you are looking for and get in touch.

We now have a German Shepherd puppy we are getting ready to start showing. All hips/eyes/heart checks from both parents came back good or excellent. She is smart as hell, happy, zero signs of any future hip issues and she is fast as hell to boot. We have a rescue shepherd that is only 3 years old and this year old puppy just blows by her like she was standing still. I love them both and they both get the same care, same diet and same playtime but its really a stark contrast between the rescue badly bred one and the one that is a product of many many years of breeding only the best. Our show shepherd's father recently won Best of Opposite Sex at the national German Shepherd specialty and the mother is a finished grand champion as well.

At the end of this rant... You will spend WAY more in vet bills for a $500 CL puppy or whatever than you will with a $1500-$2k purebred from a Breeder of Merit so if you are one of those ppl who is like "why would I pay $2k for a dog when I can get one for way less from JimBob at work?". Like everything in life... you get what you pay for. As this is a snake forum, would you rather have a snake from Petco or from one of the top notch herp breeders? Your choice.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

Nice rant. Absolutely untrue that you can't get stellar GSDs that cost under a thousand. People don't need to pay several months rent or mortgage for a good quality GSD that can be healthy, obedient, and loyal to death. Kennels are poor places to purchase family dogs whether it's 200 or 2k. The parents, both parents, need to live in the house and the puppies whelped in the house around people.

Champion dogs are nice but don't really mean anything except to others who show. I prefer real dogs for real people. No my GSDs don't look pretty walking in a circle in some air conditioned building. They are working dogs with actual responsibilities on a 30 acre farm. Their ability to demonstrate advanced commands, defend from a multitude of predators, be loyal to the bone, be in perfect health, and have excellent temperaments is what I and people who want good family dogs care about...not some ridiculous title from walking in a circle. My GSDs have proven to be everything we could hope for in real world conditions and that is what matters. A "champion" dog that has never truly worked a day in its life is unproven and can hardly be considered a true champion outside of the show world fantasy land.

[ScottyDsntKnow]

$1600 for a good GSD should not be several months rent unless you are in a $500/mo trailer or something, not to mention getting a cheap one that hasn't had proper health checks on the parents and properly selectively bred is going to cost way WAY more in vet bills than you'd save on the initial purchase price. Not saying that you HAVE to spend that much but I hate that argument. Our show puppy is doing working trials and herding as well, they actually really should be able to or they are not legit shepherds so I agree there. Actually most GSDs that show also compete in trials as its kind a of big deal for a GSD. As far as conformation showing being a fantasy... Not really, not when conformation, temperment, movement and overall reflection on the breed standard is all what the dog is going up against. I have a rescue shepherd and the overall condition/health of the show puppy is ridiculously better from bone structure, hips, skin condition, joints and just overall agility and quickness as well. Both get the same treatment, same food, same love and care and affection as do all our animals.

I'm not trying to say there aren't good dogs you can rescue or you can't wind up with a good dog for not a ton of money. Some breeders do massively overcharge and don't even get me started on the "doodle" breeders who are charging $thousands for mixes. All I am saying is that after having gotten dogs from legit breeders who do all health checks/research on the parents and are not in it to make money, its a much much much better result than getting a dog off CL or from some random backyard breeder.

[Asherah]

AKC GSD registered from great lines. Both parents checked out with excellent hips. She is in superb health and is such a beautiful example of the breed. Amazing drive, superb temperment, and insane ease of trainability. She's from a small breeding program that might be called "backyard" in some circles and didn't cost me $1600. By your standards I'd have a cheap, badly bred dog. In contrast, I've seen some crap dogs that people paid a lot of money for. It boils down to doing your research and finding a good, reputable breeder, not the price. Though I do agree that I'd much rather pay more money for a well bred, healthy dog, than take the cheap way out.

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[ScottyDsntKnow]

Again... didn't say you can't get a dog for less than I paid. Not sure why everyone is getting so defensive and putting words in my mouth. I paid for the pick female of the litter for a show prospect and the father is one of the top show GSDs in the country, pet quality is not as much. And yes, agreed that you need to do research I have been agreeing on that from my first post. When I say "backyard" I mean some rando breeding dogs just for profit without any support to the new puppy owners and minimal health/vet checks. Like the Amish that charge $300-$500 for a puppy no questions asked as one example. Obviously not the case with the above dog. If the parents hips checked out and there is no recent history of genetic issues then you for sure got a good dog.

Just be careful to say "AKC registered". Any dog with papers can be AKC registered and that is all it is, a registry. Too often "AKC registered" is used as a selling point. That's like saying you bought a snake from a "ball-pythons.net registered" breeder lol. Generally you want to be looking for an AKC dog with parents that have conformation, herding, coursing etc... (one or more) titles and no recent history of genetic defects in the backgrounds, thats all.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

Again... didn't say you can't get a dog for less than I paid. Not sure why everyone is getting so defensive and putting words in my mouth.

No one is saying this. What you have been saying is good quality GSDs that are in excellent health only come from breeders who title/show their dogs and charge an absurd amount. And something about smaller breeders who have backyards and don't buy into the showing/titling scam are in it for the money.

I'll say it again, my GSDs are in perfect health and demonstrate every trait and command I could wish. They didn't cost near that and came from what would be considered by some to be "backyard breeders" (aka, family dogs who live inside the home, are not showed, and are loved members of the breeders' family). Why on earth would I pay considerably more when these GSDs are everything my family could ask for?

I'll absolutely concede that many BYBs are horrible set-ups but that does not apply to all. I prefer the term family breeders. You made the comparison earlier to buying ball pythons from Petco vs top notch herp breeders? There are tons of top-knotch bp breeders that would be considered a backyard (or rather basement) breeder. Not everyone is a NERD or BHB.

It is still a supposition that titling translates into real world working abilities. And it may but I'd rather buy from a breeder where the parents actually demonstrate the skill in working conditions where there are external variables at play. My GSDs have stood down a much larger pack of coyotes. They have herded and protected our donkeys (unheard of with donkeys). There is no title for this. They must come from a breeder who selects for these traits even if not show/title focused. As well as training from myself.

My GSDs track our children individually by name and then guard them upon finding them. There might be a tracking title but my GSDs have proven they can do this in uncontrolled conditions and despite numerous enticing distractions.

My point is not that my real-world trained and bred GSDs are better than title/showed ones but rather the notion that affordable and great quality GSDs can't be had for 5 or 600 dollars. To date my dogs have had ZERO health problems so it false that this is always the case that you spend more in vet bills.

ps. Housing costs are relative to your location. Where I live, a nice 2500 sq. foot house on 1/2 acre lot in a decent area can be found for $600/month.

[Asherah]

Had a big long post: decided it wasn't worth the effort.

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