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  1. #1
    BPnet Veteran Daigga's Avatar
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    Personal protection dog?

    So my husband and I are expecting our first child here near the end of the month which has gotten me thinking lately about home security and ways of keeping our family safe. To be perfectly honest, I'm just really uncomfortable with the idea of mixing guns and infants at this point and the more I consider it the more I would prefer a well trained dog. I've owned protective dogs before, but never an actual personal protection dog, so I have lots of questions about if this is a valid option for our lifestyle or not.

    First thing is that we live in an apartment at the moment. I'd like to make a move into a house, but the earliest that could happen would be July of this year and there's no guarantee that it will happen then at all, so it may be apartment living for a good deal into the future. Second is that we have a dog right now already and he is definitely a permanent fixture in our lives. Odin is a sheltie border collie mix who likes to bark and is crazy smart, but he's no guard dog and I really doubt anything can change that. He gets along great with other dogs, kids, cats, and everything else, but should I expect problems with adding a personal protection dog into the house? I had honestly considered another dog anyway just so Odin could have a playmate whike my husband and I were occupied with our newborn (he's the spoiled rotten center of attention at this point). With my current dog, a newborn on the way, and apartment living, is a personal protection dog a good choice for me?

    If so, what would I be looking for? I'm not picky about breed and wouldn't mind a mix. Should I just keep an eye on what the local shelters have up for adoption, or should I be looking into breeders? What about age? Do I absolutely want a puppy to raise up with a close attachment to my newborn and my family, or would I be just fine getting something around a year or two old, because I would love to skip the potty training/teething stage! Are there certain personality aspects I should be keeping an eye out for, and what would those look like on an untrained dog? Lastly, what can I expect a good trainer to charge? If I pursue this price wouldn't be a deciding factor, but I would still like to know about what to expect.

    Any advice is appreciated!

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  3. #2
    BPnet Senior Member Mephibosheth1's Avatar
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    Greetings!

    While I'm far from a Dog Training Expert, The main things I would encourage you to consider are breed characteristics and time you can spend with the dog.

    From my experience in the veterinary field, many breeds that are synonymous with protection are large and require proper attention to ensure that they bond properly with their owner and that they are safe around other dogs/people. Rottweilers, Dobermans, and Alsatians make amazing guard dogs, and (in spite of what some people say to the contrary) can be raised to interact well with children and other dogs. The main key is the time spent with them as a puppy (until they're around 6 months of age). Almost all of the bad behavior that people complain about with their dogs (barking, whining, inability to interact with other dogs/new people) can be traced to improper socialization at a young age.

    In addition, dogs do not automatically respect you just because you purchase them; you must demonstrate to the dog that you are the boss. The amount of time you are able to spend with your dog and the attitude you show towards it will determine if they feel you are in charge or not. I have personally seen a lot of success with Cesar Milan's style of dog training; the clients who implemented his non-aggressive but firm style of training always had dogs that would listen to them and were comfortable with other people that their owners were comfortable with.

    Breed characteristics will also influence the choice; being in an apartment will make it more difficult to select a dog that can adequately protect your family. Great Danes are good apartment dogs (believe it or not) and are good with families. I would be cautious about cattle/herding dogs (they can be nippy with kids) and Golden Retrievers (number one culprit for dog bites in children). I'd talk with your veterinarian to see if they know some good dog trainers in the area, and then talk with them about your concerns and situations.

    TL;DR–most dogs can be good guard dogs; picking a good trainer and taking time to help the dog bond with your family are the keys to success.
    Last edited by Mephibosheth1; 01-02-2016 at 05:02 PM.
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  5. #3
    BPnet Veteran Jabberwocky Dragons's Avatar
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    This is a topic close to home so let me give you a good three prong approach.

    Let's be clear up front about one thing. Unless you are armed, you are at an extreme disadvantage. A protection dog is a great addition to, but never a replacement for, a firearm and training. To be blunt, if the intruder is armed and you are not, you're looking at a dead dog and dead family. A young mother in the Tennessee, with a newborn baby and wife of a local preacher, was recently shot dead during a home invasion at 8:30am on Tuesday morning in a good, "safe" neighborhood. A protection dog gives you the warning and time needed to reach for your own protection. They can scare other intruders off but never make the fatal mistake of relying on anyone but yourself for protecting your family. Owning a firearm will not put your infant in any danger. It will on the other hand allow you to protect yourself and your child.

    It is a great idea to get a protection dog as a puppy and have it grow up with your child. Each of our children have received their own German Shepherd puppy within a week of being born. These dogs worship our children and are always looking out for them. We have also trained the dogs to locate and seek each child by name which can be very useful (think of it as hide and seek for training purposes). If someone is afraid of their dog being around their own infant then (a) the dog needs to be put down or b) the owner shouldn't own a dog or c) both a and b.)

    We have 30 acres of pasture and woodlands so need very active dogs. For apartment living, I think a mastiff would be an excellent choice. They are large but do not require nearly the amount of space as some smaller more energetic dogs. Whichever protection dog you get, it needs to get from a breeder not the shelter, but it does not need to be AKC registered. If the breeder has kids, see how the parents do with the children. Get a puppy so you have full control over the temperament and training. The Monks of New Skeet have an excellent book on dog training.

    The third prong is an alarm system, even though you are in an apartment. There is no need to spend thousands of dollars are on monitored alarm system. Personally, I think it's a little ridiculous people do this when you can do a better job yourself. For $200 or so, you buy your own DIY alarm system from a place like Fortress Security Store. It will send alarms directly to your cell phones so you can respond. You can also put up good quality IP cameras that you can view on your phones anywhere, anytime for $60. Since you rent, everything can be taken down easily and taken with you when you move.

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    Excellent JD!

    Right between the eyes real world advice!
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    BPnet Royalty KMG's Avatar
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    Re: Personal protection dog?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Dragons View Post
    This is a topic close to home so let me give you a good three prong approach.

    Let's be clear up front about one thing. Unless you are armed, you are at an extreme disadvantage. A protection dog is a great addition to, but never a replacement for, a firearm and training. To be blunt, if the intruder is armed and you are not, you're looking at a dead dog and dead family. A young mother in the Tennessee, with a newborn baby and wife of a local preacher, was recently shot dead during a home invasion at 8:30am on Tuesday morning in a good, "safe" neighborhood. A protection dog gives you the warning and time needed to reach for your own protection. They can scare other intruders off but never make the fatal mistake of relying on anyone but yourself for protecting your family. Owning a firearm will not put your infant in any danger. It will on the other hand allow you to protect yourself and your child.

    It is a great idea to get a protection dog as a puppy and have it grow up with your child. Each of our children have received their own German Shepherd puppy within a week of being born. These dogs worship our children and are always looking out for them. We have also trained the dogs to locate and seek each child by name which can be very useful (think of it as hide and seek for training purposes). If someone is afraid of their dog being around their own infant then (a) the dog needs to be put down or b) the owner shouldn't own a dog or c) both a and b.)

    We have 30 acres of pasture and woodlands so need very active dogs. For apartment living, I think a mastiff would be an excellent choice. They are large but do not require nearly the amount of space as some smaller more energetic dogs. Whichever protection dog you get, it needs to get from a breeder not the shelter, but it does not need to be AKC registered. If the breeder has kids, see how the parents do with the children. Get a puppy so you have full control over the temperament and training. The Monks of New Skeet have an excellent book on dog training.

    The third prong is an alarm system, even though you are in an apartment. There is no need to spend thousands of dollars are on monitored alarm system. Personally, I think it's a little ridiculous people do this when you can do a better job yourself. For $200 or so, you buy your own DIY alarm system from a place like Fortress Security Store. It will send alarms directly to your cell phones so you can respond. You can also put up good quality IP cameras that you can view on your phones anywhere, anytime for $60. Since you rent, everything can be taken down easily and taken with you when you move.
    There are many good points here. Nicely said.

    A true defense animal is not cheap as they take many hours of training and are breed for the job making them a heavy investment. To me it sounds like you have just the dog you need. Basically your current dog is an alarm system that can alert you to an intruder and allow you needed time to arm yourself and respond properly.

    Im second gen LEO with many LEOs in my family. All have or had kids during their career and all owned guns safely. A gun can be secured and made safe from kids while still being accessible to you, especially now days with the personal safes that are available. I survived childhood without any fancy safe and was taught early that the guns in the house were not toys and were to be left alone. It would honestly be far cheaper for you to buy a quality handgun, safe, and bullets over a trained guard dog.

    While I do agree with part of the above in regards to alarms I personally have one and endorse them. You can get them cheap to fit your personal needs. I like that my home is monitored while Im away as I may not always be able to check my phone when it is triggered and then wait on hold to report the alarm to the police dispatch. I also like knowing that my wife has another level of alert, defense, and protection from an intruder. Many times a barking dog or blaring siren is enough. I also like that in a true home invasion if I or my wife was told to deactivate the alarm we have a secondary code that turns the alarm off while still sending the alert for police to respond.

    Plus there are plenty of options that allow for easy installation of wireless alarms that can be packed up and taken with you on a move which is great for apartment living.

    I vote that you keep your dog, get an alarm, buy a handgun, and take training classes with it.
    Last edited by KMG; 01-02-2016 at 05:51 PM.
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  11. #6
    BPnet Veteran Jabberwocky Dragons's Avatar
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    Re: Personal protection dog?

    KMG, you are correct about the alarm system. In hindsight, I tried to edit my post to make it less harsh but time has expired. My wife and I are always able to monitor our cell phones so I mistakenly extrapolated that to others. Certainly a third person monitoring service would be beneficial to those who do not always have access to their cell phones.

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  13. #7
    BPnet Veteran Daigga's Avatar
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    Re: Personal protection dog?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Dragons View Post
    This is a topic close to home so let me give you a good three prong approach.

    Let's be clear up front about one thing. Unless you are armed, you are at an extreme disadvantage. A protection dog is a great addition to, but never a replacement for, a firearm and training. To be blunt, if the intruder is armed and you are not, you're looking at a dead dog and dead family. A young mother in the Tennessee, with a newborn baby and wife of a local preacher, was recently shot dead during a home invasion at 8:30am on Tuesday morning in a good, "safe" neighborhood. A protection dog gives you the warning and time needed to reach for your own protection. They can scare other intruders off but never make the fatal mistake of relying on anyone but yourself for protecting your family. Owning a firearm will not put your infant in any danger. It will on the other hand allow you to protect yourself and your child.

    It is a great idea to get a protection dog as a puppy and have it grow up with your child. Each of our children have received their own German Shepherd puppy within a week of being born. These dogs worship our children and are always looking out for them. We have also trained the dogs to locate and seek each child by name which can be very useful (think of it as hide and seek for training purposes). If someone is afraid of their dog being around their own infant then (a) the dog needs to be put down or b) the owner shouldn't own a dog or c) both a and b.)

    We have 30 acres of pasture and woodlands so need very active dogs. For apartment living, I think a mastiff would be an excellent choice. They are large but do not require nearly the amount of space as some smaller more energetic dogs. Whichever protection dog you get, it needs to get from a breeder not the shelter, but it does not need to be AKC registered. If the breeder has kids, see how the parents do with the children. Get a puppy so you have full control over the temperament and training. The Monks of New Skeet have an excellent book on dog training.

    The third prong is an alarm system, even though you are in an apartment. There is no need to spend thousands of dollars are on monitored alarm system. Personally, I think it's a little ridiculous people do this when you can do a better job yourself. For $200 or so, you buy your own DIY alarm system from a place like Fortress Security Store. It will send alarms directly to your cell phones so you can respond. You can also put up good quality IP cameras that you can view on your phones anywhere, anytime for $60. Since you rent, everything can be taken down easily and taken with you when you move.
    I'm not adverse to owning a gun exactly, only I've always thought that in case of home invasion a gun is only useful if it's close and ready, which I just don't feel mixes well with infants or small children. If having a dog meant I could have a gun tucked away somewhere not accessible to my child I would probably be more comfortable doing so, if you understand my meaning? I wouldn't even mind having a firearm a little more on hand once my son is old enough to understand what that means. I think I just need some adjustment time.

    I'm certainly not afraid of Odin being around the baby, more worried about him being destructive around home if he doesn't adjust well to not being the center of attention. We've gotten good at not leaving anything lying around to tempt him, but he's been known to chew the wall or poop on the carpet out of spite if nothing else is available. One of the reasons I would absolutely go with a professional for training purposes over doing the training myself. He's beautifully behaved at the dog park or as long as someone is home, but he's a proper butthead when he thinks he can get away with it. Which reminds me, do personal protection dogs do well at dog parks?

    A security system is something I probably should have looked into before now and I'll certainly explore those options.

  14. #8
    BPnet Veteran Jabberwocky Dragons's Avatar
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    Re: Personal protection dog?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daigga View Post
    I'm not adverse to owning a gun exactly, only I've always thought that in case of home invasion a gun is only useful if it's close and ready, which I just don't feel mixes well with infants or small children. If having a dog meant I could have a gun tucked away somewhere not accessible to my child I would probably be more comfortable doing so, if you understand my meaning? I wouldn't even mind having a firearm a little more on hand once my son is old enough to understand what that means. I think I just need some adjustment time.

    I'm certainly not afraid of Odin being around the baby, more worried about him being destructive around home if he doesn't adjust well to not being the center of attention. We've gotten good at not leaving anything lying around to tempt him, but he's been known to chew the wall or poop on the carpet out of spite if nothing else is available. One of the reasons I would absolutely go with a professional for training purposes over doing the training myself. He's beautifully behaved at the dog park or as long as someone is home, but he's a proper butthead when he thinks he can get away with it. Which reminds me, do personal protection dogs do well at dog parks?

    A security system is something I probably should have looked into before now and I'll certainly explore those options.

    I understand and just being open to the idea is commendable. Not to drag this out so I'll just say you can certainly have a firearm on hand and it be 100% inaccessible to your child. Assuming you do not want to carry, drawer safes provide very quick access to yourself while preventing child access. Understand these will not prevent a determined thief (you need a heavy duty gun safe for that) but they will give rapid access to yourself. Here is a great one. Keep one in the bedroom and one in the living room and that will give you good accessibility.
    http://www.amazon.com/STACK-ON-PDS-1...b_title_sports

    Your dog sounds great and please don't think my abc comment about dogs and babies was directed at you. We heard prophecies of doom about our doberman and first child. I've also seen others' dogs harmed and even killed as a result of fear from new baby/dog mixing.

    The new security systems are really great and can go beyond just security. You can also link a smoke detector to it which is priceless reassurance for any dog owner who isn't home.

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    Flippant answer: An infant is not capable of playing with a gun, so no immediate worries there.

    I know people who carry a gun in a holster all the time - yes, even at home. You can't schedule a home invasion. If your gun in in a proper holster, on you, then you won't have to worry about your toddler playing with it when you are in a different room.

    Sounds extreme to wear a gun all the time, but some places are getting THAT bad. I wear a sheathed fixed blade all the time (and we have three dogs, plus locked gates on a fence.) Yes, our neighbourhood is getting THAT bad.

    Get some training, and find the good sites on the net.
    If you don't do stupid careless things with your gun, you and yours won't be harmed by it.
    If that pastor's wife had had a gun handy, she would still be alive today.
    Last edited by distaff; 01-02-2016 at 07:27 PM.

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  17. #10
    Registered User lorrainesmom's Avatar
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    with many of the home alarm systems, you should also be able to get a panic button. Even if your system isn't a monitored one, the loudness of the alarm should alert your neighbors. As far as the dog goes, any dog that alerts you to anything unusual is a good deterrent. As far as guns, well, let me put it this way: I have a gun, I know how to use it, and am a decent shot. I hate the damn thing. I am much more likely to use one of the many sharp swords in my house than I ever am to use a gun. Being a competitive fencer, I know how to use it as well. Would it save my life if someone were determined to harm me, and had already gotten past my fenced in yard, alarm system, and my dog? doubtful. What the fences, alarms, dogs and guns do,is to add an extra level of protection that may buy you time while dialing 911 and waiting until they get there.

    The best defense anyone can buy is to get to know your neighbors, (the sane ones anyway), make sure you are always aware of your surroundings, and lock the doors when you are alone.
    Last edited by lorrainesmom; 01-02-2016 at 08:11 PM. Reason: bad grammer.

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