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  1. #1
    Registered User Kokorobosoi's Avatar
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    Hubby wants a hot, teach me?

    My husband used to keep hots before I met him. Years of experience keeping them in his home, was paid to pick them up from airport and transport them to destination after confirming live arrival. I know he has handled eyelash vipers, spitting Cobras, gilas, gaboons, etc. there are more, but those are the specific ones I've heard stories about.

    Me? I've only handled what can be bought in a big box pet store. I know hubby wants a hot again, specifically the eyelash viper. I've forbidden hots in the house as of right now, but I'm willing to learn. As I end up caregiver to our animals, I refuse to have an animal I don't know how to handle. It would be my fault if someone (probably me) died because I had to fill a water dish or something equally asinine.

    Ive made the mistake of googling, and came up with every gory horror story that's out there. I didn't need to see the propaganda, I need the actual non hysterical facts from those who have experience. Can someone point me in the right direction for my research? Hubby just says I don't have to worry about it since he will do the husbandry. Riiight... I heard that about the bps and the ferrets. Guess who just spent the morning stunning mice and cleaning poo?

    Hope someone can help me learn!

  2. #2
    Registered User Kokorobosoi's Avatar
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    http://www.sareptiles.co.za/forum/vi...p?f=44&t=19245

    Would this be a decent place to start? Many of the care sheets I have found contradict each other. This one seems commonly referenced.

    About vemon levels... Even this seems...contested? I've seen everything from fatal to bee sting. I suspect it's somewhere in the middle? Or does it vary that widely between specimens?

    The lack of consistent info is part of what makes me say no. If I don't understand the risks then it would be irresponsible.

    another question is I've found atheris ceratophora, and bothriechis schlegelii. Not sure which one I'm supposed to be looking at- both are called eyelash vipers apparently? This is why googling isn't going well for me isn't it?
    Last edited by Kokorobosoi; 12-29-2015 at 11:48 AM.

  3. #3
    Registered User nightrainfalls's Avatar
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    Step one

    check your local laws.

    A few years ago hots were legal almost everyplace. Many municipalities have tightened that up. If it is illegal don't do it.

    Step two accept you will get bit, plan for it. The snake only needs to get lucky once, you have to be perfect 100% of the time. No one is perfect 100% of the time. Sooner or later everyone gets bit. If you can't accept that and plan for it and pay for it, don't do it.

    Step three: Find a local keeper and get a lot of training. If you can't get training, don't do it.

    Step four: Set up protocols that limit free handling as much as possible. If you think you can casually handle hots then don't do it.

    For example, locking hides that allow snake to be moved without touching them. I used to have a great design. A wood box with a loop of rope attached to the top. The box had a round door with a tab on it. A quarter of the door was cut out to line up with a hole in the hide. I would open one side of the cage and put the hide in the cage. Using a hook I would direct the snake to the hide. Once the snake was inside, I would use the hook to spin the door closed. Then I lifted the hide out of the cage with the hook, and locked it in a clear sterilite tote. I cleaned the cage and put the hide back in. Then I opened the door and let the snake crawl out when it felt like it. This works with most fairly docile snakes, but it can be a nightmare with spitters or fast elapids.

    Step five: Find a vet in advance who will handle hots. If you don't have a very good exotic vet lined up, don't do it.

    Step six: Get insurance for your snakes: If you can't afford it, don't do it.

    Step seven: Put enough money in a bank account to keep your hot safely for the entire expected life of the animal. Depending on where you live this may mean buying anti-venin, vet bills, food costs, caging costs, purchase costs, and any thing else you can think of. If you can't put that much money in the bank, don't do it.

    Step eight: spend a long time reconsidering your decision to get hots. They are beautiful but dangerous and expensive. If something happens to you, you can't just have a pet sitter come in and take care of them. If they get bigger than you can handle, you can't just give them away. If you get hit hard and it is bad, you still have to keep and protect your animals. They are your responsibility even when they try to kill you. P.S. They will try to kill you, even if you think they are tame, even if you have years of experience and have never been bit. Even if you have done it a hundred times without incident. This is a mental game and your mind will let you down at the worst time. There are no easy hots, no excuses, and very few second chances. Your bite may be dry, or it might be the start of a timer to limb loss or death. You may recover, or you may die. Even with treatment.

    Hots are a hobby for the seriously dedicated. If you are not almost pathologically dedicated to this hobby, then don't get into it. There are a lot of fantastic non venomous snakes to spend decades keeping. Hots are incredible to keep, but not for everyone. If they aren't for you, don't do it.

    If you have noticed that I told you not to do it a lot, then you probably have realized that I don't think you should do it. Then again, I have done it, and I understand why someone would want to. When I did it, it was in a Research Facility. I got to leave before I got bit, and I got to get out of it without needing to rehome any animals. As a private keeper you won't have those luxuries. I have decided keeping hots as a private citizen is too much for me. It is too much for most people. If after reading this, you think it is too much for you, then don't do it.

    David

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to nightrainfalls For This Useful Post:

    Creepy Alien (12-29-2015),Enirei (09-02-2016),hazzaram (12-29-2015),MysticMoon001 (12-30-2015)

  5. #4
    BPnet Veteran Najakeeper's Avatar
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    Re: Step one

    Quote Originally Posted by nightrainfalls View Post
    check your local laws.

    A few years ago hots were legal almost everyplace. Many municipalities have tightened that up. If it is illegal don't do it.

    Step two accept you will get bit, plan for it. The snake only needs to get lucky once, you have to be perfect 100% of the time. No one is perfect 100% of the time. Sooner or later everyone gets bit. If you can't accept that and plan for it and pay for it, don't do it.

    Step three: Find a local keeper and get a lot of training. If you can't get training, don't do it.

    Step four: Set up protocols that limit free handling as much as possible. If you think you can casually handle hots then don't do it.

    For example, locking hides that allow snake to be moved without touching them. I used to have a great design. A wood box with a loop of rope attached to the top. The box had a round door with a tab on it. A quarter of the door was cut out to line up with a hole in the hide. I would open one side of the cage and put the hide in the cage. Using a hook I would direct the snake to the hide. Once the snake was inside, I would use the hook to spin the door closed. Then I lifted the hide out of the cage with the hook, and locked it in a clear sterilite tote. I cleaned the cage and put the hide back in. Then I opened the door and let the snake crawl out when it felt like it. This works with most fairly docile snakes, but it can be a nightmare with spitters or fast elapids.

    Step five: Find a vet in advance who will handle hots. If you don't have a very good exotic vet lined up, don't do it.

    Step six: Get insurance for your snakes: If you can't afford it, don't do it.

    Step seven: Put enough money in a bank account to keep your hot safely for the entire expected life of the animal. Depending on where you live this may mean buying anti-venin, vet bills, food costs, caging costs, purchase costs, and any thing else you can think of. If you can't put that much money in the bank, don't do it.

    Step eight: spend a long time reconsidering your decision to get hots. They are beautiful but dangerous and expensive. If something happens to you, you can't just have a pet sitter come in and take care of them. If they get bigger than you can handle, you can't just give them away. If you get hit hard and it is bad, you still have to keep and protect your animals. They are your responsibility even when they try to kill you. P.S. They will try to kill you, even if you think they are tame, even if you have years of experience and have never been bit. Even if you have done it a hundred times without incident. This is a mental game and your mind will let you down at the worst time. There are no easy hots, no excuses, and very few second chances. Your bite may be dry, or it might be the start of a timer to limb loss or death. You may recover, or you may die. Even with treatment.

    Hots are a hobby for the seriously dedicated. If you are not almost pathologically dedicated to this hobby, then don't get into it. There are a lot of fantastic non venomous snakes to spend decades keeping. Hots are incredible to keep, but not for everyone. If they aren't for you, don't do it.

    If you have noticed that I told you not to do it a lot, then you probably have realized that I don't think you should do it. Then again, I have done it, and I understand why someone would want to. When I did it, it was in a Research Facility. I got to leave before I got bit, and I got to get out of it without needing to rehome any animals. As a private keeper you won't have those luxuries. I have decided keeping hots as a private citizen is too much for me. It is too much for most people. If after reading this, you think it is too much for you, then don't do it.

    David
    Great set if advice from David. As a venomous snake bite survivor and a current keeper, I agree with most of it.

    Training is very important and it shouldn't be taken lightly. I have started with no training with a Naja and I could have easily been killed. Don't do that mistake. The good thing for you is that your husband is an experienced keeper so he can train you for this and if you are going to take care of animals, he definitely absolutely should train you for 100s of hours before you do anything by yourself.

    As for venom strength, all front fanged venomous snakes can kill you. Either with their venom strength or with a strong allergic reaction to the venom. So don't go into this thinking that "if I get a snake with weaker venom like an Bothriechis schlegelii, I will be fine." It does not should not work like that. You need to show the same respect to all front fanged venomous snakes (and to some rear-fanged as well.) Also, you can do everything correctly but there will be moments where a very small lapse in judgement is enough for a very unpleasant situation so take David's advice and be prepared. Get health insurance good enough that it will cover antivenom expense, hospital transport expense and possible surgery expense. Get liability home insurance so if the snake somehow gets out, you are protected from damages. Have a known and reliable antivenom supplier and let your doctor know about this. etc. etc.

    I am a little bit of a hypocrite when it comes to venomous snakes because I do not work 100% by the book but I know that I should and I surely think that everybody else also should. Be prepared, fully understand what you are getting into (Death is sometimes the easy way out of a bite!!!) and always keep in mind that you are working with intelligent weapons with free will, which will in most cases perceive you as a threat.

    And knowing all this, if you go for it, enjoy it. For me it is one of the most rewarding things in my life.

    ps: Here are a couple videos for you to show how things can go horribly wrong lightning fast. The first one is me with a baby king cobra, the second one is my friend Al, who is known as Viperkeeper on Youtube. I have over 10 years of experience, he has more than triple that I think.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fAko2RoAJg
    Last edited by Najakeeper; 12-30-2015 at 05:55 AM.

  6. #5
    Registered User Kokorobosoi's Avatar
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    Thank you both so much for that advice, and for your impeccable reasoning and politeness. It means a lot to me.

    Those steps are the perfect way for me to seriously begin the research and to know if I personally can handle this. I know he can, but I cant see getting something in my home that I cant be responsible for. If it turns out that it just isn't something I can commit to, then I will have money set aside for my current animals. Never a bad thing.

    I am still leaning towards not doing this, simply from a risk perspective. I love the animals, but I am not prepared for them. I have way too much to learn, years of learning. Thank you for giving me this information, and I will absolutely save it for future reference.

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