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  1. #51
    BPnet Veteran SKO's Avatar
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    Re: Is live feeding really that bad?

    Can we start scheduling this fight, I mean debate, for the same day every month?
    Last edited by SKO; 10-13-2015 at 08:36 PM.

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  3. #52
    BPnet Royalty Zincubus's Avatar
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    Re: Is live feeding really that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by distaff View Post
    One thing that made a strong impression on me early on when I started researching was an account by a guy who blamed a bad batch of F/T for the death of his boa. He believed that the rats had gone bad before they were frozen, and caused two regurges (to the best of my memory).

    Could have been the case, I don't know. I do know for sure that if I get a live mouse - it hasn't spoiled! I can also get a general impression on its current health.

    We raise our own chickens, rabbits and goats. I butcher the rabbits and poultry. I have butchered goats, but it is easier to send them off. I know they had comfortable lives, I know what they ate, I know they were healthy when they died, I know the slaughter was quick and humane, and I know the butchering process was sanitary. Might as well have the same for the snakes if possible. We buy live mice from the local independently owned pet store - they raise their own, and I've told the owner I want to buy some breeders to start my own colony.
    You see I've been keeping snakes for years and years ... Currently have 22 including 8' Snow Boa , F2 Dwarf Hypo Burmese python , various King snakes , Corn snakes , Royal pythons , Garter snakes , Rhino , Bamboo and LTR Rat-snakes .... quite a variety of snakes and requirements .

    Guess what ?

    Feeding d/f frozen all those years , thousands and thousands of feeds and not ONE single problem .... Zero risk of injuries to snakes as well . Bonus !




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  5. #53
    BPnet Royalty Zincubus's Avatar
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    Re: Is live feeding really that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKO View Post
    Can we start scheduling this fight, I mean debate, for the same day every month?
    Wednesday's good for me .. It's my day off




  6. #54
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    Re: Is live feeding really that bad?

    Zincubus, there is a risk but it is very, very rare, as you can see by reading the posts. There are going to be instances where a snake gets injured by it's prey, even less common getting a permanent wound or a fatal blow. If you read these posts, you can still believe you think frozen is better - that is fine. Everyone has their opinion but you are laying yours down on us like if you feed your snake live the prey is going to pull out a M80 and start blowing your snake to smithereens. The least your snake is MOST LIKELY to get is a little bite/scratch that will heal in a matter of days or in the next shed. That's all there is to it. If you read the posts, leaving your snake unsupervised for too long or leaving the prey in the tank overnight can deliver some marks, possibly worse than just a cut. But if you watch over and if the snake doesn't eat you just take the animal out - you'll be fine.

    Frozen is good is it has many advantages.
    Live is also good and it has many advantages.

    Both of them have their downsides.

    Frozen may be contaminated if bought be an untrustworthy company or it was induced to death by medication, toxins, etc, or has fallen rotten.
    Live may fight against your snake.

    Both of these can EASILY be avoided.

    Both ways are good, I'm not going against any. My question was: Is live really that bad? Because I've been seeing a lot of people saying like in your first post - it'll rip your snake's eyes out. But that isn't the case, which I suspected and all of these people have the proof for it.

    There's no need to keep fighting about this.

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  8. #55
    BPnet Royalty Zincubus's Avatar
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    Is live feeding really that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
    Zincubus, there is a risk but it is very, very rare, as you can see by reading the posts. There are going to be instances where a snake gets injured by it's prey, even less common getting a permanent wound or a fatal blow. If you read these posts, you can still believe you think frozen is better - that is fine. Everyone has their opinion but you are laying yours down on us like if you feed your snake live the prey is going to pull out a M80 and start blowing your snake to smithereens. The least your snake is MOST LIKELY to get is a little bite/scratch that will heal in a matter of days or in the next shed. That's all there is to it. If you read the posts, leaving your snake unsupervised for too long or leaving the prey in the tank overnight can deliver some marks, possibly worse than just a cut. But if you watch over and if the snake doesn't eat you just take the animal out - you'll be fine.

    Frozen is good is it has many advantages.
    Live is also good and it has many advantages.

    Both of them have their downsides.

    Frozen may be contaminated if bought be an untrustworthy company or it was induced to death by medication, toxins, etc, or has fallen rotten.
    Live may fight against your snake.

    Both of these can EASILY be avoided.

    Both ways are good, I'm not going against any. My question was: Is live really that bad? Because I've been seeing a lot of people saying like in your first post - it'll rip your snake's eyes out. But that isn't the case, which I suspected and all of these people have the proof for it.

    There's no need to keep fighting about this.
    Nice , fairly balanced post which is reassuring ... the issue of the potential damage to their eyes is an obvious weakness though . I badly scratched eye or one pierced by teeth can and does happen .... no I've never witnessed it but as I said before even though I've never been there I know the Sun is damned HOT.

    When you've got a terrified , creature with teeth and sharp claws that's cornered in a confined space and your precious snake is approaching ... the eyes are so vulnerable .. and yes there are an infinite number of evidential photos online .

    Anyways all that was to enlighten anyone who was unsure of the potential risks to their snakes .

    My main reason is that I LOVE every living thing . I've said before how when I'm out dog walking or jogging and I see a worm or a slug struggling across a pavement / sidewalk I pick them up and drop them in a safe place even though I abhor slug slime . I just couldn't imagine how people drop a cute little mouse or baby rat into its death . That's just how SOME of us are though . It doesn't make us better or worse than anyone else so there's no point someone now saying I'm being all self righteous as I'm not . It's just how I am . I realise that the frozen mice have been killed but thing is ... I DIDN'T KILL IT .. so that is how I'm able to live with the idea of feeding rodents to my snakes .

    Last little point - as apparently only things I've witnessed myself are considered as legitimate ... a few weeks ago when I was buying a couple frozen XL rats for my beautiful , unscarred , Snow Boa the store assistant actually cut her hand on one of the rats claws - she was really upset and annoyed and she said something about disease and getting the wound infected ..

    Seriously . I'm done here for a while . That's why I thought I'd offload a bit in this post .

    .. I as I've said .. I never wanted to upset or anger anyone it's just me being me ( maybe a bit of being British as well - as live feeding is completely frowned upon over here - thankfully )

    Regards
    Last edited by Zincubus; 10-14-2015 at 03:23 AM. Reason: efit




  9. #56
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    Re: Is live feeding really that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zincubus View Post
    Nice , fairly balanced post which is reassuring ... the issue of the potential damage to their eyes is an obvious weakness though . I badly scratched eye or one pierced by teeth can and does happen .... no I've never witnessed it but as I said before even though I've never been there I know the Sun is damned HOT.

    When you've got a terrified , creature with teeth and sharp claws that's cornered in a confined space and your precious snake is approaching ... the eyes are so vulnerable .. and yes there are an infinite number of evidential photos online .

    Anyways all that was to enlighten anyone who was unsure of the potential risks to their snakes .

    My main reason is that I LOVE every living thing . I've said before how when I'm out dog walking or jogging and I see a worm or a slug struggling across a pavement / sidewalk I pick them up and drop them in a safe place even though I abhor slug slime . I just couldn't imagine how people drop a cute little mouse or baby rat into its death . That's just how SOME of us are though . It doesn't make us better or worse than anyone else so there's no point someone now saying I'm being all self righteous as I'm not . It's just how I am . I realise that the frozen mice have been killed but thing is ... I DIDN'T KILL IT .. so that is how I'm able to live with the idea of feeding rodents to my snakes .

    Last little point - as apparently only things I've witnessed myself are considered as legitimate ... a few weeks ago when I was buying a couple frozen XL rats for my beautiful , unscarred , Snow Boa the store assistant actually cut her hand on one of the rats claws - she was really upset and annoyed and she said something about disease and getting the wound infected ..

    Seriously . I'm done here for a while . That's why I thought I'd offload a bit in this post .

    .. I as I've said .. I never wanted to upset or anger anyone it's just me being me ( maybe a bit of being British as well - as live feeding is completely frowned upon over here - thankfully )

    Regards
    You describing live feeding as if you had a clue which you have not. FUNNY

    There is no terrified creature with sharp claws and teeth, if you had a clue you would know that when done right which EXPERIENCE people do, the feeder will go in a corner, groom itself and fall asleep, so much for that, but hey you must know more than I do because I have only fed 20000+ live preys.

    Again get a clue and go spread fear and lies elsewhere, I can recommend a few forum where people will go for everything you say, here not so much because people are more intelligent than you give them credit for.

    BTW still time to make good on your empty promises because no matter what YOUR agenda is wrong and always will be.

    Try to educate people for a change instead of trying to scare them with your ignorance.


    And spare me on the I am British this has nothing to do with anything, frowned upon or not it's up to any individual to expend their own personal knowledge.


    Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Stewart_Reptiles; 10-14-2015 at 05:43 AM.
    Deborah Stewart


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  11. #57
    BPnet Royalty Zincubus's Avatar
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    Is live feeding really that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
    You describing live feeding as if you had a clue which you have not. FUNNY

    There is no terrified creature with sharp claws and teeth, if you had a clue you would know that when done right which EXPERIENCE people do, the feeder will go in a corner, groom itself and fall asleep, so much for that, but hey you must know more than I do because I have only fed 20000+ live preys.

    Again get a clue and go spread fear and lies elsewhere, I can recommend a few forum where people will go for everything you say, here not so much because people are more intelligent than you give them credit for.

    BTW still time to make good on your empty promises because no matter what YOUR agenda is wrong and always will be.

    Try to educate people for a change instead of trying to scare them with your ignorance.


    And spare me on the I am British this has nothing to do with anything, frowned upon or not it's up to any individual to expend their own personal knowledge.


    Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk
    You seem very defensive, aggressive and even stressed to be honest yet I'm nicely chilled and calm .... Interesting in itself.


    Post some links to some rats , cuddling up in corners before they're eaten painlessly in their sleep and I'll have a look
    Last edited by Zincubus; 10-14-2015 at 05:50 AM.




  12. #58
    Sometimes It Hurts... PitOnTheProwl's Avatar
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    Someone seems to forget to mention all the snakes that die from f/t too.
    They can be a problem for keepers that don't know how to thaw out properly.
    A snake can get injured from eating a rat that is partially still frozen too.

    Don't forget the waste of a life.
    You thaw a rat, none of your snakes eat it so what do you do?
    Some will refreeze to offer another day but many will just throw it out.
    I would refreeze but that's a whole different debate on the growth of bacteria.
    Now you have wasted a rat that you have no clue what it went through to die.
    A live goes back in the rack to live another week.

    I am not faulting frozen or live feeding.
    What I am faulting is the ignorance being spewed.
    If you have never had a dog in the fight then your point still doesn't count.

    By Zincubus' point I can toss my hat into a debate on any subject I want to just because I can google a photo of it??
    I'm smarter than that and don't like making myself look foolish if I don't have to.
    Then again this continual debate with someone that doesn't comprehend experience from theory makes many of us look bad or stupid or whatever but ironically none that "seem very defensive, aggressive and even stressed" fault for feeding frozen. SMH

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  14. #59
    BPnet Royalty Zincubus's Avatar
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    Is live feeding really that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl View Post
    Someone seems to forget to mention all the snakes that die from f/t too.
    They can be a problem for keepers that don't know how to thaw out properly.
    A snake can get injured from eating a rat that is partially still frozen too.

    Don't forget the waste of a life.
    You thaw a rat, none of your snakes eat it so what do you do?
    Some will refreeze to offer another day but many will just throw it out.
    I would refreeze but that's a whole different debate on the growth of bacteria.
    Now you have wasted a rat that you have no clue what it went through to die.
    A live goes back in the rack to live another week.

    I am not faulting frozen or live feeding.
    What I am faulting is the ignorance being spewed.
    If you have never had a dog in the fight then your point still doesn't count.

    By Zincubus' point I can toss my hat into a debate on any subject I want to just because I can google a photo of it??
    I'm smarter than that and don't like making myself look foolish if I don't have to.
    Then again this continual debate with someone that doesn't comprehend experience from theory makes many of us look bad or stupid or whatever but ironically none that "seem very defensive, aggressive and even stressed" fault for feeding frozen. SMH
    Notice that I'm the one in here not throwing meaningless , petty insults around .. see a pattern emerging ?

    All I do is offer an opposing view which is only reasonable .

    The reasoning that everyone in here feeds live and has always fed live doesn't mean it's the BEST option .

    Note I said best not correct option ..
    Last edited by Zincubus; 10-14-2015 at 07:55 AM. Reason: edit




  15. #60
    Sometimes It Hurts... PitOnTheProwl's Avatar
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    Re: Is live feeding really that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zincubus View Post
    Notice that I'm the one in here not throwing meaningless , petty insults around .. see a pattern emerging ?
    What do you consider a meaningless insult? Me calling you ignorant? LoL
    It would only be meaningless if it were not true, you are completely ignorant to live feeding in every definition of the word.
    BTW to help you out it means you have no clue.

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