Is live feeding really that bad?

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I've never been to the sun but I know it's bladdy hot !

You do not know, you assume , again you have ZERO experience on the subject! BTW how did the last debate work out for you?
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-vs-F-T-debate

So I can comment or offer an opinion as long as its the same as yours . How bizarre !

Opinion based on what? all you have ever done is try to scare people based on ZERO experience, unlike you I try to EDUCATE people and that is what you should strive for. BTW

Right , as I promised before .... I'm done in these LIVE feeding threads and won't contribute to any other LIVE feeding threads in the future . I'll never understand why you guys feed LIVE but that's life .

[srp1102]

So I can comment or offer an opinion as long as its the same as yours . How bizarre !

Having an opinion of live vs. F/T is completely fine, but what you were describing in your first post was what happens during ​IRRESPONSIBLE live feeding. As Deborah was saying, she has fed over 20,000 live rodents and has not had any incident like you were describing. All everyone is asking is to please not scare away people from live feedings based on incidents that happen when an irresponsible keeper practices irresponsible techniques.

[PitOnTheProwl]

So I can comment or offer an opinion as long as its the same as yours . How bizarre !

Okay....I tried....
We already know you have NO NONE ZERO experiance feeding live.
You cannot argue a point on just what you have heard or read.
I dont denate nuclear science, WHY? Not my thing.

There are several people responding on this post that have 10s of 1000s of live feedings without any problem not including myself.

PS you also proved yourself not of your word.
I remember you posting that you dont like, understand or want to be a part of any live/frozen debate. Sucks to be you

[wolfy-hound]

I've fed live for ten years and I've never ever had a eye injury to a snake. In fact, the very worst I've ever seen was the equivalent of a scratch.

And BTW, a small injury like a rodent bite heals up and you wouldn't be able to even see it after one shed. So the whole "scars and scratches" from a rodent bite is sort of false, unless you manage to see it right after it occurs. Even severe injuries tend to heal over and disappear after several sheds. I have personal experience with a severe "injury" as I had a snake that was put on a respirator(long story) and the vet inserted the tube through the side. You couldn't tell where that 2 inch long incision was after a year. A rat bite is generally under 1/8 inch. You'd be hard pressed to find it fresh.

Live feeding doesn't cause problems in general. Leaving unattended prey can be dangerous and even fatal. Feeding larger prey like rabbits or adult rats could result in a bite.

Snakes are individuals and yes some snakes ARE stupid when it comes to hunting and striking prey. I don't care how many millions of years it took to get the snake to this point, there's always a doofus in every generation. I've had a few that I prekilled prey for because they were idiots about striking in a bad spot, grabbing rodents by the rear and not wrapping the torso, resulting in a paniced rat trying to bite everything. Because I was supervising, I could quickly intervene. No injury occurred and I killed the rat quickly. After realizing this snake was just bad at killing, I began prekilling the rat and the problem was solved.

All this above having been said, no snake has ever been injured by a frozen/thawed prey item. Also, no one that I've ever heard of has gotten so attached to a frozen/thawed prey item that they ended up wanting to keep it as a pet instead of feeding it to the snake.

If you want to feed F/T, do it. There are some dangers to feeding F/T too. What about not thawing it completely? What if you leave it sitting out and it rots? What if it was killed using a drug instead of the safe CO2? Should that make people never use F/T prey? Of course not! You just feed F/T properly and responsibly! It's no different for feeding live. You do it right and you pay attention.

Or you do the zombie rat dance with a F/T prey for each snake every week.

[AbsoluteApril]

I know there are a lot of opinions on this and it can get heated quickly. I guess to each their own. I won't say someone is wrong for feeding live, I just don't usually agree it's the best choice. I am surprised to see so many people endorse it, times do change.

Speaking as someone that originally didn't know snakes would take dead food and fed live, I am in the 'frozen' camp now. The statement "responsible live feeding" to me is kinda funny but I get it though, there are some very irresponsible things people can do (like leave unattended). Seeing the rat clamping down on my boa's neck over and over as it was being constricted is the main thing that changed my outlook. I tried to 'intervene', I tried to get tongs between the rat's mouth and my snake, I started hitting the rat (jumbo rat, adult boa) on the head to try to knock it out, nothing worked, it was horrible. (also to note, large prey being constricted does take time to die, it's not that quick.) That's when I started doing research and found out they would take dead food and I started to pre-kill everything. Fast forward years later and f/t became so easy to get, even better. I *will* feed live as a last resort, only pinks/fuzzies that can't really fight back and do die quickly. I have yet to find a snake that cannot be switched to f/t with persistence and patience, lots of patience.

[Zincubus]

Okay....I tried....
We already know you have NO NONE ZERO experiance feeding live.
You cannot argue a point on just what you have heard or read.
I dont denate nuclear science, WHY? Not my thing.

There are several people responding on this post that have 10s of 1000s of live feedings without any problem not including myself.

PS you also proved yourself not of your word.
I remember you posting that you dont like, understand or want to be a part of any live/frozen debate. Sucks to be you

Not of my word ? Jees I've slept since then and I'm Aspergers with a terrible memory - that was ages ago .

I just stumbled upon this thread and offered a different perspective ..

I don't see how directing others to online pics of injured snakes is a bad thing tbh ..

A novice may think there's no risk as they eat live in the wild (not confined ) .

[Zincubus]

I've fed live for ten years and I've never ever had a eye injury to a snake. In fact, the very worst I've ever seen was the equivalent of a scratch.

And BTW, a small injury like a rodent bite heals up and you wouldn't be able to even see it after one shed. So the whole "scars and scratches" from a rodent bite is sort of false, unless you manage to see it right after it occurs. Even severe injuries tend to heal over and disappear after several sheds. I have personal experience with a severe "injury" as I had a snake that was put on a respirator(long story) and the vet inserted the tube through the side. You couldn't tell where that 2 inch long incision was after a year. A rat bite is generally under 1/8 inch. You'd be hard pressed to find it fresh.

Live feeding doesn't cause problems in general. Leaving unattended prey can be dangerous and even fatal. Feeding larger prey like rabbits or adult rats could result in a bite.

Snakes are individuals and yes some snakes ARE stupid when it comes to hunting and striking prey. I don't care how many millions of years it took to get the snake to this point, there's always a doofus in every generation. I've had a few that I prekilled prey for because they were idiots about striking in a bad spot, grabbing rodents by the rear and not wrapping the torso, resulting in a paniced rat trying to bite everything. Because I was supervising, I could quickly intervene. No injury occurred and I killed the rat quickly. After realizing this snake was just bad at killing, I began prekilling the rat and the problem was solved.

All this above having been said, no snake has ever been injured by a frozen/thawed prey item. Also, no one that I've ever heard of has gotten so attached to a frozen/thawed prey item that they ended up wanting to keep it as a pet instead of feeding it to the snake.

If you want to feed F/T, do it. There are some dangers to feeding F/T too. What about not thawing it completely? What if you leave it sitting out and it rots? What if it was killed using a drug instead of the safe CO2? Should that make people never use F/T prey? Of course not! You just feed F/T properly and responsibly! It's no different for feeding live. You do it right and you pay attention.

Or you do the zombie rat dance with a F/T prey for each snake every week.

Here's a thread from this very forum on the topic .
Check out post 8 . Granted the guy left the snake and rat unattended but as he said the snake was virtually "ripped in half " ( his words ) ... It's irresponsible to suggest that rats CANNOT do any damage to your snake ..

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-rats-vs-mouse

[PitOnTheProwl]

Not of my word ? Jees I've slept since then and I'm Aspergers with a terrible memory - that was ages ago .

Call me cold or whatever but YOU chose to post on a public forum....... I dont care what you have, doesnt change the debate or the facts.

Be more useful and start preaching thermostat use. More snakes are injured because of inregulated heat than live feeding each year.

[Nixon]

Thank you all for the replies and opinions. I really thought feeding live wasn't going to be a problem. I watched her the entire time and it went down well. I defiantly feel like frozen is better because it's cheaper and I can keep a lot of them. Where with mice I don't have any proper cages to keep them in if my snake doesn't eat it. I'll have to work on that if I continue feeding live because man, it is a rush to see that.

No she's not.

Your snake is the product of 70 million years of evolution with two of it's primary functions being breeding and eating small rodents/birds. Your snake knows perfectly well what she's doing when it comes to finding, killing, and eating food.

She's smart in her own ways and stupid wasn't the best way to describe it. She's inexperienced. What she was doing was going up to the live mouse, with a plan to strike, but she gets too close to the point where she touches the mouse and it scurries off. She just needs to learn.

But again, thank you all for the replies. I think I'll go on and off with live feeding simply because frozen is cheaper and all. But live feeding is pretty interesting. And I know some people don't like the sight of another animal dying and I don't like it either but... eh. I can stand it. It's cool to see, I'm not going to lie. Those mice are adorable little creatures but it's so neat to see snakes attack them.

[PitOnTheProwl]

Nixon..... Trust me, out of the egg they know what to do.

Yes frozen can be cheaper if planned out. I breed my own so live is all round easier in my house. I have access to both as I freeze off for customers too.