Mice keep cannibalizing litters!!

[JayRo626]

So, my one mouse had a litter about 1-2 weeks ago. They ate every single one(At least 8 of them.) My other mouse, in the same cage had her litter(Again, at least 8.) And they cannibalized every one too!! There are now four mice in the tub, but it's very large and there is plenty of room. I'm feeding them Doggy Bag food, and for the first litter, them were on pine shaving bedding, now they're on wood pellets.

It was ones first litter, and the others second. The first litter the one had, I gave to my rats to foster, and her daughter is now in the tub with her, but wasn't when they had the litter about a week ago. At that time, the male was still in with her, so I assumed he ate them, and took him out.

My other mice, in the other tub had hers two days ago. There were three mice in the tub, but one escaped a few days ago. She is on the same food, and pellet bedding. She had twelve, and ate the first one. I was there when she had them, and was cleaning cages, and even spot cleaned hers, and switched her from shaving to pellet bedding. This was her first litter, so she didn't have enough milk. every time I went out there, more were dead, and they had no milk bands. I took the remaining five, and gave them to my ASFs, and took a couple of the ASF babies and gave them to the mouse(Because she kept looking for her babies, and I felt bad, and because one of the babies broke it's leg, and I wanted to check on it with out being attacked.) Two more died with the ASFs, but the others have large milkbands now.

Even out of all the dead babies, she didn't eat them, and still had them in with the live ones.

Oh, and the best part? 11 of those 12 babies were ALL MALE. Idk what the last was, since she ate it. but maybe it's a good thing there are only three left... Eleven males would stink this place up very quickly!!

Why did the mice cannibalize all their babies? And, how do I prevent it in the future?

[Marrissa]

It sounds like they aren't getting what they need nutritionally. I have yet to hear of a proper diet that consists of only dog food. I'm certain they're missing quite a few ingredients they need. There are two kinds of diet you can create with doggy bag dog food but it's not supposed to be their staple diet.

Here's the Shunamite Rat diet. (I use the same diet for rats, mice, and ASFs)
http://www.shunamiterats.co.uk/feedkittens.shtml

And here's the Sue Bees Rat diet
http://www.ratsrule.com/diet.html

I've also read there is a link between two much protein and more males. I know a mouse breeder that has been experimenting with diets to lower the protein to get more females.

If you get them on a proper diet (either making your own or buying lab blocks) and they still cannibalize, then you need to start over with new stock.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Mice can be as easy as rats if done right that implies a few things

Food meeting their needs you need to provide 16% 18% of protein ideally.

Fresh water at all time.

Limited stress (they really don't need to be mess with more than once or twice a week (cleaning and "harvesting"). I interact with mine once a week during cleaning at which time I also pull out my feeders.

Not being over crowded

Now keep in mind that they are scavengers as well so if their babies die they will dispose of them, also keep in mind that if they are not capable of nursing the babies they will cull them as well.

Now I doubt food is the issue or the bedding, it is very possible that you have bad females it happens and the only solution is to start from scratch again.

Years ago when I first started with mice I had to try 3 different times before getting a good colony started, this mean culling any animal that were cannibals, chewers, biters, since than I have not had a single incident of cannibalism in my colony.

Here is how I run things I have 2 females per tubs and males runs through 3 tubs each staying with the females 2 weeks at the time. I have found this method to work best for me compare to harems.

[Rhasputin]

It's the doggy bag food. Get blocks or something with real nutrition. Sow and Piglet food is more nutritious than doggy bag by a million times, and is readily available at any feed store.

[Rhasputin]

Also, about the rat diets that use dog food. They don't use doggy bag, and I wouldn't recommend using it in a mix. It recomends high quality holistic dog kibble.

[JayRo626]

I highly doubt It's the food, since all my rodents(Rats, ASF, and mice) get this food, and they are the only ones who ate their babies. And, as stated above, the other mouse who had her babies only ate one. The other eight that died, were still in with her live ones, and she was still trying to nurse them.

[Rhasputin]

It's still not a healthy diet.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

It's still not a healthy diet.

Interesting I have been producing 1000's of mice with the SAME DIET used by the OP over the last 5 years (I used to feed Mazuri prior to that), I have ZERO cannibalism and litters averaging 12 to 18 babies each.

One of the reason I decided to switch is because rather than believe everything I read I like to experiment first hand and draw my own conclusions, so I did with half of my colony for 6 months than made a complete switch as my results were actually identical if not better.

How about you what were your result with this diet that led you to this conclusion?

[FluppleWott]

To me it sounds like stress. Whether it's stress from diet or stress from the other mice, I honestly couldn't tell you. Do they have plenty of hides and things? That could ease it I guess. I've never had any rodents cannibalize before but then again the only ones I had produce lots of babies were gerbils not mice :\
Idk but good luck

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[JayRo626]

I don't have a ton of hides. They chewed up the last of them(All are made from plastic or cardboard, since I refuse to pay like, for the tiny piece of plastic or wood a pet store sells.) And I have yet to get more.

I have to sell all my mice now though, which makes me very sad, as I just paired my quad colored girl(very nice type for a pet store mouse, big, and beautiful coloring!!) To my splash buck. She is almost as big/bigger than my splash buck! I don't have a way of weighing her though.....