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  1. #1
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    Howdy folks. I'm shopping around for thermostats and have a question.

    Aside from the built in night drop (in some models), what do proportional thermostats have over straight thermostats? Does the constant temperature fluctuation of the straight thermostats bother the snakes or have any ill effects on them?

    BTW I'll be using a UTH/CHE combination.

    What do y'all think about the Johnson A419?

    Thanks everyone.

    Ari

  2. #2
    BPnet Veteran led4urhead's Avatar
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    Moved to the caging forum.

    I dont have alot of experience with thermostats, but i'm sure someone will be along shortly.
    - Carson
    Compadres, it is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season. And remember, a shiny new donkey for whomever brings me the head of Colonel Montoya.

  3. #3
    BPnet Veteran Adam_Wysocki's Avatar
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    I only use proportional thermostats ... more specifically helix.

    When the probe of a straight thermostat triggers it to come on, the unit cranks the heat source "full blast" while the probe samples the temps until the desired temp is reached. The sampling at the probe is not constant, it is pulsed which can actually allow the heat source to get hotter than the desired temperature. Conversely, when the probe reaches the set temp, the heat source is shut completely off allowing the temps to then potentially get cooler than the set temperature until the next probe sampling. I have seen wide swings in the actual temp of my heat tape using the straight on/off type thermostats.

    In contrast, proportional thermostats pulse small degrees of power to the heat source in conjunction with the probe sampling to allow for a more steady and controlled warm up (and cool down if needed) of the heat source. These temperature changes are much more gradual and less prone to extreme ranges in temperature.

    Based on my experience, proportional units like helix do a much better job of keeping a stable and more exact temperature while testing I've done with straight on/off systems showed temp variances of as much as 8 degrees.

    I know a lot of people use and love the on/off type of thermostat, but they are just not for me. I've tried Rancos and some others and was very disappointed. I've been using helix proportional controls for a very long time and would never use anything else.

    Hope this helps.

    -adam
    Click Below to Fight The National Python & Boa Ban




    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
    - Anna Sewell, author of Black Beauty


  4. #4
    Registered User justcage's Avatar
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    Adam is correct on most of what he has said. While I disagree on the degree of flucation on the temp range from start to stop, I do agree that a proportional thermostat would be more accurate. When you plug a pro thermo into any heating source it automatically reduces the power by 10%. I have used every brand of thermostat on the market and have been unhappy with most. I have found that the cheaper alife and such type thermostats are where the big temp fluctations occur. The Johson Controls and Ranco have a Differential(sp) setpoint adjustable to 1 degree. This means that If you set your thermo at 90 it will kick on at 89 and back off at 91(heating mode). On the pro units there will be some degree of differance also, while it does provide power all the time it does raise the current going to the element and therefore can be compared to the on/off thermostats. When the temp is reached the pro will reduce its poer to a point that it is basically off. If it did not then the temp would continue to raise. I am not bashing helix, I actually was selling them at one point and found a better proportional unit that your not paying 20.00 for the name on the box. My personal preffrence is the Johnson Controls thermostats, but that is just me...Hope this helps,
    -Matt
    Just a reptile lover!!!!!

  5. #5
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    Yes, it did help. Thanks again

  6. #6
    BPnet Veteran Adam_Wysocki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcage
    The Johson Controls and Ranco have a Differential(sp) setpoint adjustable to 1 degree.
    I'm well aware of this feature, but if your heat tape increases 5 degrees between probe samplings, this feature will not help you. All that this feature is doing is increasing the sampling frequency of the probe, you still have the potential of the heat source increasing in temp faster than the probe can sample it because the on/off systems opens the heat "full blast".

    I have 2 oil-filled heaters running on a Ranco right now. The temp on the Ranco is set to 84 degrees, the differential set-point is 1 degree. My raytek is reading anywhere from 83.1 - 90.4 degrees on the heaters depending when I take the temp (on mode vs. off mode). Same set up with a Helix 1500 watt system in the next room over and the heaters are at 83.8 and 83.6 degrees (+/- a couple tenths). There's a very slight pulse of power going to the heaters on a regular interval.

    This test is all the proof I need.

    You have a vested interest in people buying what you're selling, and that's cool. I'm not selling a thing, I just want what's best for my animals.

    -adam
    Click Below to Fight The National Python & Boa Ban




    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
    - Anna Sewell, author of Black Beauty


  7. #7
    Registered User justcage's Avatar
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    You are wrong, I sell on/off thermos and proportional thermostas my man. What are you saying im trying to tell them not to buy a thermostat as all? HHHMMM yup thats it...I want whats bnest for my animals and my customers. I only sell products I use myself. I took the helix off ceacuse of the price and the options. Me carrying the 2 types of thermos gives a choice of what is on the market and what I feel is the best.I also have oil filled heater on the Johnsons and the reading from my raytek are within 1 degree of the setpoin at all times. You cannot measure the heater man you have to measure at the proble where the temps are being red.....Oh and one more thing, I am looking at the Helix dealer manual right now and the 1500 watt module is a on/off model!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Model number 1003 add on is not proportional! You also have to take into consideration the size of the element being used if a pro thermo is used on an oil filled heater and it lowered the temps the heater will take a considerable amount of time to cool the oil. But is usine a 11" peice of flexwatt the time will be reduced many hundred times over. Different "tests" are going to come out with different results if you do not have a baseline and control group. Imm not tryin to agure with ya just tryin to get my point across...Have a good one.
    -Matt
    Just a reptile lover!!!!!

  8. #8
    BPnet Veteran Adam_Wysocki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcage
    You are wrong, I sell on/off thermos and proportional thermostas my man.
    I never said you didn't. All I said was that you have "a vested interest in people buying what you're selling". Is that not true?

    Quote Originally Posted by justcage
    What are you saying im trying to tell them not to buy a thermostat as all? HHHMMM yup thats it...
    I don't see where I said that at all????

    Quote Originally Posted by justcage
    I want whats bnest for my animals and my customers.
    I have zero doubt about that and I said nothing to the contray. From the reviews I've seen your service is outstanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by justcage
    I also have oil filled heater on the Johnsons and the reading from my raytek are within 1 degree of the setpoin at all times.
    Ranco and Johnsons are the same thing? I've never used a Johnsons and never said that I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by justcage
    You cannot measure the heater man you have to measure at the proble where the temps are being red
    The probe is attached directly to the heater with duct tape for this test.

    Quote Originally Posted by justcage
    .....Oh and one more thing, I am looking at the Helix dealer manual right now and the 1500 watt module is a on/off model!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Model number 1003 add on is not proportional!
    Mine was purched from Helix as a proportional and I can watch the led get dimmer and brighter just like on my basic systems. I don't have a dealer manual to dispute your claim, but I know what kind of thermostats that I run.

    Quote Originally Posted by justcage
    You also have to take into consideration the size of the element being used if a pro thermo is used on an oil filled heater and it lowered the temps the heater will take a considerable amount of time to cool the oil. But is usine a 11" peice of flexwatt the time will be reduced many hundred times over. Different "tests" are going to come out with different results if you do not have a baseline and control group. Imm not tryin to agure with ya just tryin to get my point across...Have a good one.
    With the probes taped directly to the heat source there should be no difference between oil filled heaters, heat tape, or whatever. The test is to measure the units response to a direct contact temperature. I didn't do a control group or a baseline because I'm not conducting a scientific experiment. It's a practical test of two competing products.

    I hope that helps clear some things up???

    -adam
    Click Below to Fight The National Python & Boa Ban




    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
    - Anna Sewell, author of Black Beauty


  9. #9
    Registered User justcage's Avatar
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    I really appricae the compliments, and do not see this as an agrument. One thing I would suggetn on your room heat and u might already be is using a fan also connected to the thermostat. And have it kick onthe as the stat does. Also do you still have the probe on the heater? The room will be considerably cooler then the circumferance surrounding the heater. I do know those heater are awsome for the purpose we use them as. I have tried to stress the point of using there heaters to people that are having trouble with there ambient room temps. Also the 1500 watt model is considered a on/off stat. Does not pulse, I did not know this either until the dealer book came in....TTYL,
    -Matt
    Just a reptile lover!!!!!

  10. #10
    BPnet Veteran Adam_Wysocki's Avatar
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    I never thought it was an argument, did you?

    Yes, I do use fans and in my actual set ups the probes are not directly on the heaters. Everything works great normally when set up properly with helix's .... 3 rooms and a walk in incubator. (The fans run 24x7).

    I just got done hooking a light bulb up to my 1500 watt system and it dims and gets brighter (pulses). The ones that I have are not on/off systems.

    -adam
    Click Below to Fight The National Python & Boa Ban




    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
    - Anna Sewell, author of Black Beauty


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