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  1. #21
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    Neal stated Louisianna is a single-consent state. So is New York. Recording the conversation was not illegal, and not in bad faith. It was a good idea, obviously. As far as leases go, I strongly recommend, when asking for an exception, that one also ask for the exception to be recorded on both copies of the lease. CYA.
    Last edited by DLena; 09-08-2016 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Typo

  2. #22
    Venom Life Neal's Avatar
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    Re: No snakes allowed in new lease

    Quote Originally Posted by Nellasaur View Post
    While I can't argue with the legality of what you did, Neal, it sure seems like you were operating in bad faith. I would have been pretty pissed as a landlord if you'd pulled something like that on me, even if it was all legal.

    OP, I hope you'll go about this with more transparency and honesty if you do decide to ask your landlord for an exception.
    Sure, I wouldn't be happy about it either but I also work in a jail so I know from experience, when it's word vs word, that can go either way. If it's not documented then recording works just as fine. People lie, especially in larger corporations and businesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl View Post
    You might want to seek legal advice considering many states will hold this against YOU for illegally recording this conversation.
    You would be homeless here in Texas
    Actually mate that's not true, and my cousin is a lawyer.

    Louisiana Law:
    Louisiana. Summary of statute(s): Louisiana's Electronic Surveillance Act bars the recording, interception, use or disclosure of any oral or telephonic communication by means of any mechanical or electronic device without the consent of at least one party to the conversation.

    Texas Law:
    Texas Wiretapping Law

    Texas's wiretapping law is a "one-party consent" law. Texas makes it a crime to intercept or record any "wire, oral, or electronic communication" unless one party to the conversation consents. Texas Penal Code § 16.02. Therefore, if you operate in Texas, you may record a conversation or phone call if you are a party to the conversation or you get permission from one party to the conversation in advance. That said, if you intend to record conversations involving people located in more than one state, you should play it safe and get the consent of all parties.


    Furthermore:
    Eleven states require the consent of every party to a phone call or conversation in order to make the recording lawful. These "two-party consent" laws have been adopted in California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.

    So as long as you don't live in those states, as long as you're involved you can record without letting the other person know. You can't just walk up and record two people talking, you have to actually be involved in the conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by DLena View Post
    Neal stated Louisianna is a single-consent state. So is New York. Recording the conversation was not illegal, and not in bad faith. It was a good idea, obviously. As far as leases go, I strongly recommend, when asking for an exception, that one also ask for the exception to be recorded on both copies of the lease. CYA.
    Exactly, I did it to protect myself because I would rather have proof versus the word of a person when regarding anything financial situations or life situations.
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  4. #23
    Registered User Nellasaur's Avatar
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    Re: No snakes allowed in new lease

    Quote Originally Posted by DLena View Post
    Recording the conversation was not illegal, and not in bad faith.
    It's not the fact that he recorded the conversation that was in bad faith, it was the fact that he lied to his prospective landlord. Deliberately omitting the fact that the pet in question was a snake (not to mention that he already owned it) was misrepresenting the situation to get the affirmative he wanted, and that ain't cool, at least IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal View Post
    People lie, especially in larger corporations and businesses.
    Yep, they sure do, don't they?

  5. #24
    Sometimes It Hurts... PitOnTheProwl's Avatar
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    Re: No snakes allowed in new lease

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal View Post
    People lie, especially in larger corporations and businesses.
    Its nice to know your standing..... I personally hold myself AND my word to a higher level. SMH

  6. #25
    Venom Life Neal's Avatar
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    Re: No snakes allowed in new lease

    Quote Originally Posted by Nellasaur View Post
    It's not the fact that he recorded the conversation that was in bad faith, it was the fact that he lied to his prospective landlord. Deliberately omitting the fact that the pet in question was a snake (not to mention that he already owned it) was misrepresenting the situation to get the affirmative he wanted, and that ain't cool, at least IMO.

    I owned it but as I stated it was staying with a friend, so technically it was not actually in my possession IF you want to get technical. People have an absurd fear of snakes, so no I'm not going to come out and show my cards, I was vague until I got clarification that it was okay. He should of said no animals that can cause damage or disturb neighbors and no snakes if it was an issue. We can all look at this differently, just depends your take on it. As I said in a previous post, I don't leave my fate or my financial fate in anybody's hands but my own.

    Yep, they sure do, don't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl View Post
    Its nice to know your standing..... I personally hold myself AND my word to a higher level. SMH
    When dealing with people the rental company that is in charge of many places that rent out, I know for a fact that place lies as I have friends who use them as well, so I'm not going to be forthcoming. It's not that I don't hold myself and my word on a higher level, I just like to level the playing field.
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  7. #26
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    I live in New york, and even though we are a single consent state, i believe you still must inform the other party you are recording them. This gives them the right to not speak with you or allow the recording. I get a lot of phone calls where people tell me they will be recording the call for better customer service, and then when i tell them i am also recording this call for my own information and records, they will just hang up on me. I really don't care if its someone i really want to talk to, i don't bother, but its a great way to get rid of telemarketers, and they never call back. As far as keeping the snakes, I own my home, and still never tell anyone what animals are in my home, paranoid neighbors can be a pain, whether you rent or own.

  8. #27
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    Re: No snakes allowed in new lease

    Quote Originally Posted by blue roses View Post
    I live in New york, and even though we are a single consent state, i believe you still must inform the other party you are recording them. This gives them the right to not speak with you or allow the recording.
    This is incorrect. In a single-consent state, as long as YOU are a PART of the conversation (as Neal stated), you don't have to tell them anything. You are totally allowed to inform them that you are recording the call, but you have no obligation to pass along that info. California is a two consent state... so in CA, for example, if Neal had done the same thing, he would have been evicted... and when it "went to court", the judge would have told him that the recording was inadmissible because he didn't have the property manager's consent to record the conversation.

    The reason that telemarketers and customer service people give that long spiel over the phone is because of states with a two party consent laws. When a manager is training someone in a call center, they tell them, "read this script to the person before you say ANYTHING to them....." and that is because they have no idea where they are calling 1/2 the time. Most call centers don't even "dial a number".... they are on headset speaking to someone, and after they end the call, a computer dials the next number automatically. They don't know if that number is Louisiana or California (a two party state).

    OP
    Don't try to hide the snake. It's much more of a hassle than you think, and not worth being evicted over later because you were afraid to ask (and get it in writing) before you moved in.
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  9. #28
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    You do NOT want to be evicted. That is a legal action that will haunt you for years. Many LL's do background as well as credit checks. At the least, you will be asked about the eviction; at the worst, they won't even bother to ask...they will just pass you by.

  10. #29
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    What I like to do is ask if "other pets" are allowed (I don't ask about dogs/cats because I have a 81lb GSD so that's the first thing I look for anyway). Then, if they ask what pets, I just say something like "Aquarium and terrarium pets like fish, reptiles, rodents, and birds." I don't just say "small animal" but I try to specifically list REPTILE because "small animal" can be subjective. And if you get something like "small animal" allowed in your lease, but you have like an 8ft carpet python or a wide but short-length 4ft ball python that might not be considered small (especially against other smaller animals like a lovebird, green tree frog, hamster, betta fish, etc. even a ball python is still larger). At least that way "reptile" is mentioned in the middle and might be overlooked more as opposed to birds which are at the end (and can tend to be noisy and messy) or rodents (people just don't like the word rodent I think lol). If they ask for specifics, then I"ll say something like "a small snake in a secure enclosure with locks." If that doesn't work, I ask if they'd be willing to negotiate or work something out and try to inform them about how quite, calm, non-smelly, etc. ball pythons are.

    I haven't though to offer a pet deposit for it, though, but I'll definitely remember that in the future! But yes, you definitely want it in the lease that you're allowed to have your snake. It's tough (I know, I've been looking for an apartment for three years), but it's not worth the stress or potential issues that could arrive in the future.

    Also, quick side note that I saw someone post earlier. Slightly off topic, but a service dog is NOT the same thing as an ESA (emotional support animal). Service dogs don't require any documentation and are allowed in public areas (and apartments). They must have trained tasks. ESAs require documentation by a psychiatrist (or therapist, but I think it's psychiatrist... not 100% sure on that) are NOT allowed in public places, but they are allowed in apartments. ESAs do not have have any training.
    Last edited by fireflii; 09-10-2016 at 10:57 PM.
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  11. #30
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    Re: No snakes allowed in new lease

    Service dogs don't require any documentation and are allowed in public areas (and apartments). They must have trained tasks. ESAs require documentation by a psychiatrist (or therapist, but I think it's psychiatrist... not 100% sure on that) are NOT allowed in public places, but they are allowed in apartments. ESAs do not have have any training.
    Service dogs actually do need documentation for housing (but not for public access to general places of business) Permanent housing laws fall under the fair housing act and has slightly different rules then the American disabilities act, one of which is tenant requiring documentation that their animal helps them mitigate a disbility. Usually a doctor's note will suffice.
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