More snakes to join Burmese python on restricted list

[Bluebonnet Herp]

Although to be honest it's not like a police officer is going to know the differences between snakes, unless you went around advertising it's illegal you probably wouldn't run into any issues selling or bringing them across the entire country.

If it's a baby and you want to ship it, just write on the box, say it's a ball python, no one is going to open it and double check anyway.

Still a retarded law but I doubt it would be heavily enforced.

Isn't this considered conspiracy to break the law or something along those lines? Never condone law breaking, especially on the internet of all places where it is preserved forever in writing. You're essentially self incriminating, and if you end up in court, guess where they're going to have evidence? Right back to this post. Might as well discuss how to smuggle cocaine while you're at it.
As previously states, USFWS very well has the ability to check packages. If one of your "ball python" packages is checked and it's a burm or a retic, guess who's going to enjoy the next 5 years being locked up in prison?

[A_Kap]

I think all that Rinne was doing was just predicting what a lot of snake owners are going to do because of the ban, and I think it's true. If I was moving to another state and wanted to take my anaconda or retic with me, who's to stop me from just taking my snakes along for the ride? Will the ban be heavily enforced? No, it's not like they're going to have checkpoints along the road or have a special force team to track down people possessing snakes illegally. But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It is the LAW and it's must be followed.

[Rinne]

Isn't this considered conspiracy to break the law or something along those lines? Never condone law breaking, especially on the internet of all places where it is preserved forever in writing. You're essentially self incriminating, and if you end up in court, guess where they're going to have evidence? Right back to this post. Might as well discuss how to smuggle cocaine while you're at it.
As previously states, USFWS very well has the ability to check packages. If one of your "ball python" packages is checked and it's a burm or a retic, guess who's going to enjoy the next 5 years being locked up in prison?

No it's not because I didn't say I was going to or planning to do that, did I? Did I say, "hey guys you should totally do this"? No I didn't! For the "friendliest online community" you guys sure love to pick on me just because I perhaps did not word it as well as I should have.

As clarified in my second post, I was merely making a point that some people will probably do this in order to question the effectiveness of this law. Like I said, I have shipped reptiles before - perfectly legal and correctly labeled. It was not a suggestion, nor my intention. I don't even OWN any of the snakes on this list, and the law is not even in effect yet! I am not condoning it, and I can see how maybe you could have taken it that way but again I did not say I was going to do that nor did I encourage anyone to.

Sheesh, you guys act like I said I was going to kill someone. Oh wait, maybe I shouldn't even joke about that or you'll take me seriously then, too. Are all of you this hostile in real life too? Please don't read into my comments so much. I care about this hobby and I can admit it was poorly worded but please read my second post before you treat me like a criminal.

I think you were a bit harsh on them. They didn't say they were going to do it. They were not suggesting it be done. They were just pointing out it could be done. Nothing wrong with that IMO. It is realistic view of what may actually happen. Some people will probably do that.

It's ok to beat up on the idea. But beating up the guy was a bit much I think.

Just my 2 cents

I think all that Rinne was doing was just predicting what a lot of snake owners are going to do because of the ban, and I think it's true. If I was moving to another state and wanted to take my anaconda or retic with me, who's to stop me from just taking my snakes along for the ride? Will the ban be heavily enforced? No, it's not like they're going to have checkpoints along the road or have a special force team to track down people possessing snakes illegally. But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It is the LAW and it's must be followed.

Thank you, yes this is how I meant it. Glad at least 2 people have reading comprehension on this site. People are probably going to do this whether I posted that comment or not - doesn't mean I'm one of them. Again I can see how my first comment could have been taken the wrong way but please at least give me the benefit of the doubt until I clarify, I've never broken the law nor encouraged anyone else to...

[Marrissa]

Do we have any possible dates on when this lawsuit is going to draw to a conclusion?

[bcr229]

Do we have any possible dates on when this lawsuit is going to draw to a conclusion?

Federal cases typically take years to completely play out. I also remember reading that this one has stalled at least once due to a judge change.

[Marrissa]

Hmm and it's a few years in now right? The lawsuit started in 2013? Hopefully only another year or two then. I don't know about anyone else but this has started my retic fever bad. I guess there's nothing like the allure of the banished. I will for sure be breeding SD retic morph combos as soon as we get this interstate travel thing lifted (or at least raising up my future collection of them).

[Bluebonnet Herp]

No it's not because I didn't say I was going to or planning to do that, did I? Did I say, "hey guys you should totally do this"? No I didn't! For the "friendliest online community" you guys sure love to pick on me just because I perhaps did not word it as well as I should have.

As clarified in my second post, I was merely making a point that some people will probably do this in order to question the effectiveness of this law. Like I said, I have shipped reptiles before - perfectly legal and correctly labeled. It was not a suggestion, nor my intention. I don't even OWN any of the snakes on this list, and the law is not even in effect yet! I am not condoning it, and I can see how maybe you could have taken it that way but again I did not say I was going to do that nor did I encourage anyone to.

Sheesh, you guys act like I said I was going to kill someone. Oh wait, maybe I shouldn't even joke about that or you'll take me seriously then, too. Are all of you this hostile in real life too? Please don't read into my comments so much. I care about this hobby and I can admit it was poorly worded but please read my second post before you treat me like a criminal.

You should go back and read your own post. The way it is written sounds as if it's encouraging an idea; an idea which happens to be a felony. "Poorly written" is an understatement, because it doesn't sound anything like you're "just making a point." It sounds much more like advice for committing a felony. That's just your own wording.
And poor wording will cost you if you ever end up in court.

What does is say about the community here if we were to encourage law-breaking? What would it say about reptile keepers if there's a news headline that says "Reptile breeders faces felony charges after smuggling GIANT PYTHON across the U.S.?" That ends up being demonization of herpetoculture, and the animal rights groups and the media will be all over a story like that like flies on cow manure. And if it links back to a post giving advice or suggesting an idea because your post sure as hell was not written from the aspect of "merely making a point," what does it say about the forum or its users?

Contrary to what you want to believe about your own post, it was not written like it was "merely making a point." Writing "If it's a baby and you want to ship it, just write on the box, say it's a ball python, no one is going to open it and double check anyway" sounds like condoning a felony in english to me, and everyone else who has read this.

[Marrissa]

Yes from Kevin McCurley on Retic Nation:
"** Update 3/19/15 **I am VERY EXCITED right now...... I think we just may have hit GOLD!!!! I have been talking to a LAW FIRM that is willing to get involved in our FIGHT!!!!!!!! He wants to help NERD ... which in turn helps all of us! This means, additional legal minds that can help refine all of our efforts! More legal minds means more angles and a more refined weapon!!! Presently we are overwhelmed, USARK has essentially a few attornies to deal with this ENORMOUS task!! Adding more Attornies and allowing these legal monsters to focus on the details can really help us in a KILLER way! This is no small legal firm or any of that..... this is a firm of LITIGATORS!!!! We may even have a NEW ANGLE to approach!!!!!! I was very impressed talking to this Yale schooled attorney and he is going to look over our case and if everything goes right he is going to HELP USARK and US be even BETTER!!!!! I have so much to say but we may have just got the REAL WEAPON we have been looking for... and a new angle regarding our New Listings!!! GET EXCITED, I AM!!!!!!!!!!! I think we may be able to play with the BIG BOYS AFTER ALL!!!!"

I'm starting to think as long as we are ALL active and loud with our voices and donate what we can, that we can pull through and have this reversed. I wish I was breeding and had hatchlings to donate for the USARK auctions too.

[BJK1995]

I know this is definitely going to be the least popular opinion here, but honestly, it sounds to me too many people on this site are only thinking of their own wants when it comes to these proposed species bans. These wildlife biologists and environmental managers in the Everglades are trying to save literally MILLIONS of years of nature's work by trying to eradicate several well-established species in a habitat that was not made for them. People only seem to care about their morphs and pets over what trained professionals and scientists are implementing to at least try to decrease the inward gene flow of invasive animals in the everglades. Not trying to crap on anyone's knowledge here, but what makes you think you know better than people who have gone through years of school for this sort of thing? Just because you own some snakes and like having them around, you get upset that there is a bigger picture outside of what you see as fun? Sure, there are some biologists who would side with you in saying that these restrictions are going to be relatively ineffective here, but obviously the vast majority of them believe otherwise if these sort of restrictions are surfacing in legislation and there is an absence of major backlash from the scientific community. You're scolding politicians for listening to trained scientists over people who own snakes as a hobby, do you really blame them?

I frankly am not concerned about who these bans are effecting economically either. If you chose to make breeding and selling these snakes your lively hood, I'm sorry. But this Everglades ordeal is bigger than you or the number of people like you. If placing this ban even only SLIGHTLY benefits the larger picture in the Everglades, it was a good move. I know most people here are responsible pet owners but it only takes a small number to cause significant damage from what the studies have shown. I know you like your pet snakes, but they're pet snakes, and that is exponentially less important than even experimenting with legislation to see if it benefits the Everglades in anyway possible. If you disagree with that, don't even say that you appreciate even YOUR animals, because the Everglades is a haven for biodiversity, and many species like the ones you're desperately trying to cling on to are going to be gone forever very soon. And as for areas outside of the Everglades, it may be true that these large constrictors couldn't be capable of establishing themselves in colder climates, but we have seen them starting to creep farther and farther up North in recent years and no one is thinking of what sort of diseases these things are capable of carrying and releasing on native reptile populations when they come from wild-caught sources.

Many of the arguments I have been seeing on this site in the year I have been here and time I've spent browsing without an account, I have seen very little not based on emotion. Maybe instead of wasting your energy trying to have things they way they were before this Everglades issue, you could spend time proposing a sort of license alternative? The "Holier-than-thou" attitude on this forum is on a level I have never seen in a reptile keeping website, yet no one wants to see the greater picture on this issue that is ACTUALLY important, they just choose to be selfish and waste time fighting over things that aren't actually beneficial to anybody such as wording when someone is making a simple point and such. It is a good thing people here can hide behind their keyboards on this forum, because in front of a scientific board they'd probably be laughed at.

[DVirginiana]

As an ecologist, I promise you that banning someone in Michigan from taking their retic to Wisconsin has no measurable effect on any ecosystem anywhere. For that matter, banning someone in Louisiana from taking their retic to Mississippi doesn't have any effect on any ecosystem anywhere. These snakes can ONLY survive winters in South Florida, meaning that this is solely a South Florida problem. And by 'creeping further north' how far 'north' are you talking? Mid-florida? The fact is these animals cannot survive further north than that.

It's not a matter of 'not listening to scientists' (as a scientist I'm usually hypersensitive to that sort of mentality) unless you're talking about the herpetological experts who are trying to explain that this is not a problem for forty-nine and a half states. No one is disputing the fact that invasive species are at least somewhat harmful to everglades ecology, and you don't see this sort of reaction to the laws demanding that people get permits or microchip their animals in South Florida or the hefty fines if your pet escapes there.
If you want to complain about people not listening to the experts, you picked the wrong side of this discussion.

If you're not vegan you really don't have the right to make such holier-than-thou statements. I mean, I realize that you probably consume responsibly, but if there's even the remote possibility that your meat came from somewhere in Hawaii where feral hogs are a major issue you should be willing to sacrifice for the greater good (same goes for cattle and egg/poultry farming... these operations are doing irreparable harm to irreplaceable ecosystems globally).
That last bit was sarcasm btw. I realize that this is ridiculous. Of course it is logical; these things do much more harm to the environment than people's pet snakes ever will, but no one in their right mind would try and change it because meat consumption isn't a niche market.