Vote for BP.Net for the 2013 Forum of the Year! Click here for more info.

» Site Navigation

» Home
 > FAQ

» Online Users: 2,753

0 members and 2,753 guests
No Members online
Most users ever online was 6,337, 01-24-2020 at 04:30 AM.

» Today's Birthdays

None

» Stats

Members: 75,031
Threads: 248,489
Posts: 2,568,439
Top Poster: JLC (31,651)
Welcome to our newest member, isismomma
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-06-2010
    Posts
    181
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts

    Exotic Pet Trade?

    What exactly is the “exotic pet trade?” Are we a part of it since ownership of reptiles, amphibians, and invertebrates? I strongly believe in only purchasing captive bred. I’ve came across a few sites and a video that discourages exotic animals in captivity. These are the sites (video) that I saw that not peaked my curiosity. Hope to get answers!
    http://www.bornfreeusa.org/index.php
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSQ8blCdAtA

  2. #2
    BPnet Veteran
    Join Date
    09-14-2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    3,250
    Thanks
    170
    Thanked 703 Times in 538 Posts
    Yes, we are a part of the exotic pet trade. At least, any time we buy or sell, we are. Not sure just keeping them counts, but buying supplies probably does.

    As far as the stuff discouraging exotic animals in captivity.... well, honestly, you could probably find something discouraging pretty much anything if you looked around the internet long enough. But, yes, there are groups that are strongly against the exotic pet trade. Animals rights activist wackos mostly.

    What you should be worrying about, IMO, is not that some people disapprove about the exotic pet trade, but the fact that those groups of people, along with the sensationalist media, are succeeding in getting laws passed that are making it illegal to own some of these exotic animals. Try reading the list of animals that is proposed to become illegal in West Virginia. The bill has already passed and been signed into law. The only issue now is exactly what species will or won't end up on the final list. Or perhaps it has been finalized. I'm not totally on top of it. But here is a link if you want to read more:
    http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ater-this-week
    Casey

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to kc261 For This Useful Post:

    Bluebonnet Herp (07-02-2014)

  4. #3
    BPnet Senior Member Bluebonnet Herp's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-28-2012
    Location
    Helotes, TX
    Posts
    1,161
    Thanks
    1,405
    Thanked 475 Times in 315 Posts
    Herptiles, along with birds, exotic fish and nondomestic mammals all contribute to the 'exotic pet trade.' Most of those discouragement videos are primarily propaganda to support the delusional animal rights agenda, and are either pure lies or spun to make things seems 10x worst than they actually. Granted the exotic pet trade isn't purely innocent, it is not like what they portray is as by any means. However, nobody really bother to points out their incorrect facts and lies because those who follow them are way too ignorant to do so.

    Remember, aside from your average ignorant bystander, the people who are against the pet trade, are the same wackjobs who think cats and dogs along with every other animal deserves the same right as people and that we should all be forced to convert to vegetarians, and let vermin infest our homes while forgoing animal products that are still essential to human society. The exotic pet trade does make great leaps to bring animals closer to people, and promote both conservation and compassion for lesser known animals which otherwise, people would not have.

  5. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-09-2013
    Posts
    2,385
    Thanks
    200
    Thanked 581 Times in 459 Posts
    i see two problems:

    the first big problem is poaching and hunting for the pet trade, and the illegal smuggling and sale of poached animals. this causes destruction of nature and puts a tremendous burden on a variety of species. also these animals often suffer a lot, and many die in transit. the people that are attracted to this are people that would otherwise traffic drugs or weapons or people, trafficking wildlife offers similar profit margins while the risks are much lower, because the penalties are lower.

    ethical people that care about nature and the animals stay away from this destructive and dark side of the industry.

    for a clearer distinction, i would refer to this as the "exotic wildlife trade", or as "exotic wildlife trafficking", i think the word "wildlife" makes it clear that we are talking about poached wildlife.

    i dont think bans help, because i see that it is already banned in most parts of the world, so the problems are a lack of enforcement and that the penalties are too weak. for legitimate international trade, we have to get the right CITES paperwork, the wildlife traffickers will not have that paperwork or will obtain it through bribes or corruption or will forge the documents. or they will simply risk getting caught, which only results in some fines and a lost shipment. since the profit margins are as high as they are in the drug trade, and the damage to the environment is very real, the punishments need to be equally high.

    the second problem is irresponsible keepers that buy animals that absolutely do not make good pets. and they get overwhelmed by the challenge. then the animals suffer and accidents can happen. this is a problem with animals like lions, tigers, bears, giraffes, elephants.

    then there is a problem with really crazy people doing totally insane things. like trafficking giraffes to let them go on a ranch somewhere in rural texas or whatever, so that some republican gun nut can pay 10000 dollars to put bullets in it. yes that really gives the whole industry a bad name. when they do animal trafficking of big game, just for the fun of shooting it. thats just wrong on so many levels.

    the people that are against the exotic pet trade are generally against these things. their concerns are real and legitimate. the problem is, while they do know about the dark side of the industry (and it is as dark as it gets), they do not know that there are responsible keepers, breeders and dealers, who deal with captive bred animals, and with species that actually do make good pets.
    The Big Bang almost certainly (beyond reasonable doubt) happened 13.7 billion years ago. If you disagree, send me a PM.
    Evolution is a fact, evolutionary theory explains why it happens and provides four different lines of evidence that coalesce to show that evolution is a fact. If you disagree, send me a PM.
    One third of the global economy relies on technology that is based on quantum mechanics, especially quantum electrodynamics (electron-photon or electron-electron interactions). If you disagree, send me a PM.
    Time Dilation is real, it is so real that all clocks if they are precise enough can measure it, and GPS could not possibly work without it.
    If you disagree, send me a PM.

    The 4 philosophically most important aspects of modern science are: Evolutionary theory, Cosmology, Quantum mechanics, and Einsteins theory of general relativity. Understand these to get a grip of reality.

    my favorite music video is online again, its really nice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oABEGc8Dus0


  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Pythonfriend For This Useful Post:

    Krynn (07-02-2014)

  7. #5
    Registered User whatsherface's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-17-2014
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    209
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 88 Times in 54 Posts
    Images: 9
    Just a small point, the 'big game' hunting that you mentioned actually is very good for conservation. Paid hunts bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars to conservation efforts, help preserve habitat, and protect the existing animal populations from poaching. Its a very different situation from the illegal smuggling and poaching of animals. (Also, any animals being flown to a ranch in Texas with the intent of hunting them are illegally obtained. That is not a legal practice and is in fact poaching.)

    WWF- Hunting for Conservation

    Hunting As a Conservation Tool

    Trophy Hunting in The Context of Conservation


    Most of what people tend to think of when they hear "exotic pet trade" is animals being wild caught and poached illegally. That or people releasing their snakes and such "back to the wild". Many don't both to educate themselves on the captive populations that typically serve as exotic pets, so exotic pet owners often get cast as shady people when that's really not the truth in most cases. Fact is, it is the people who acquire large, dangerous animals without regulation that give the industry a bad name. The people who let their lions escape, or get hurt when they get too comfortable around a tiger (which is not just "a big *****cat" as some seem to believe). I'm not against private ownership of large exotics. But there is an extreme lack of regulation that often leads to misconceptions and laws like those in West Virginia. If you want a tiger, fine, but there should be mandatory education before being permitted to acquire one, background checks, inspections to guarantee an animal's proper care, assessments of enclosures to ensure the safety of both the animal and the community. There need to be regulated channels to go through. Many states either have ridiculous restrictions (like WV) or none at all, and that is an issue that needs to be addressed. The answer is not a shut down on the exotic animal industry, but a monitoring of it. And higher punishments and criminal charges for those who illegal obtain, smuggle, or poach animals. This would discourage the illegal capture of animals and encourage the existence of a captive bred population, which would in turn create a healthier population in captivity without the risk of parasites and illness from a wild caught/poached animal. The process of being smuggled leads to so many sick, ill, injured, and dead animals with little consequence for the perpetrators.
    -Hannah

    0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake (Wednesday)

    Ball Pythons
    1.0 Normal (Pugsley)
    2.0 Cinnamon (Peep & Tank)
    1.0 Lesserbee (Lemon Meringue)
    0.1 Super Pastel (Dollop)
    0.1 Pewter (Trifle)
    0.1 Hypo Pastel (French Toast)
    0.1 Mojave (Tiramisu)
    0.1 Pastel Sugar (Boston Creme Pie)

  8. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-09-2013
    Posts
    2,385
    Thanks
    200
    Thanked 581 Times in 459 Posts
    i dont believe in "hunting for preservation", because this is basically like {removed}
    theoretically it could work.... if the 3rd world nations that are known for corruption actually select the right animals for it, and use the money to protect the animals. even then, its still contradictory and weird, compared to safari tourism or ecotourism.

    but when poachers poach animals, and people smuggle them into the united states, and big game hunters pay their money to some guy in the united states who will use the money to pay poachers and hunters to get the next animal into the united states, then i can assure you 100% of the money goes to the bad guys that we dont want to have it, and 0% of the money goes to conservation.

    also, i have the impression that these big game hunters are unethical people who do not care about the environment. basically like poachers, except that they pay for the experience instead of getting paid for it. so i think most of them dont care. one year they might kill a grizzly in yellowstone national park, the next year they might buy one of the permits to shoot an elephant in africa where the money goes to conservation, the year after that they pay criminals to be able to shoot a giraffe in texas, and the year after that you find them butchering sharks in some coral reef. i dont believe they like animals, after all they love to kill them.


    i agree about the other things. in Germany you can basically keep anything, as long as you can show that you have the knowledge, the money, the space, and the time to properly care for them. so when you want a tiger, its awfully hard to do, but not impossible, it just reflects the difficulty of actually keeping a tiger in a way that makes sense.

    and penalties for poaching and smuggling should be higher. there should also be penalties for dealers that get caught with poached animals, usually the risk is over once the animals did the last border crossing without getting caught, and when the poached animals then show up in pet stores and at reptile shows, noone cares anymore.

    maybe the responsible breeders and dealers and pet stores could form a system where they get together and corner off their part of the market, making it harder for poached animals to reach the consumer. basically you have a pool of responsible breeders, and then a pool of responsible dealers that only buy from responsible breeders, and then pet stores that only buy from responsible breeders or dealers. someting like a "network of responsible exotic pet professionals for conservation". a system that works, with rules that work, for example, all members could pledge to make the animals trackable from the consumer all the way to the breeder, and to report those to the authorities that deal with poached animals, and a way to kick those out of the system that break the rules.
    Last edited by MarkS; 07-02-2014 at 11:47 AM. Reason: edited for language.
    The Big Bang almost certainly (beyond reasonable doubt) happened 13.7 billion years ago. If you disagree, send me a PM.
    Evolution is a fact, evolutionary theory explains why it happens and provides four different lines of evidence that coalesce to show that evolution is a fact. If you disagree, send me a PM.
    One third of the global economy relies on technology that is based on quantum mechanics, especially quantum electrodynamics (electron-photon or electron-electron interactions). If you disagree, send me a PM.
    Time Dilation is real, it is so real that all clocks if they are precise enough can measure it, and GPS could not possibly work without it.
    If you disagree, send me a PM.

    The 4 philosophically most important aspects of modern science are: Evolutionary theory, Cosmology, Quantum mechanics, and Einsteins theory of general relativity. Understand these to get a grip of reality.

    my favorite music video is online again, its really nice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oABEGc8Dus0


  9. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-09-2013
    Posts
    2,385
    Thanks
    200
    Thanked 581 Times in 459 Posts
    could you please tell me specifically what word i spelled out that was not allowed?

    i mean, i did get an infraction.

    but i dont see for what, and what the purpose was.
    The Big Bang almost certainly (beyond reasonable doubt) happened 13.7 billion years ago. If you disagree, send me a PM.
    Evolution is a fact, evolutionary theory explains why it happens and provides four different lines of evidence that coalesce to show that evolution is a fact. If you disagree, send me a PM.
    One third of the global economy relies on technology that is based on quantum mechanics, especially quantum electrodynamics (electron-photon or electron-electron interactions). If you disagree, send me a PM.
    Time Dilation is real, it is so real that all clocks if they are precise enough can measure it, and GPS could not possibly work without it.
    If you disagree, send me a PM.

    The 4 philosophically most important aspects of modern science are: Evolutionary theory, Cosmology, Quantum mechanics, and Einsteins theory of general relativity. Understand these to get a grip of reality.

    my favorite music video is online again, its really nice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oABEGc8Dus0


  10. #8
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-28-2006
    Posts
    24,845
    Thanks
    6,116
    Thanked 20,811 Times in 9,584 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images: 6

    Re: Exotic Pet Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pythonfriend View Post
    could you please tell me specifically what word i spelled out that was not allowed?

    i mean, i did get an infraction.

    but i dont see for what, and what the purpose was.
    If you have an issue use the proper channel, and this is not the proper channel.

    You know why you got an infraction you are no stranger to them and I believe by now you should know what what our TOS are, what family friendly means and how to go about issues like this....we talked about this many times.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Deborah Stewart


  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Stewart_Reptiles For This Useful Post:

    DooLittle (07-06-2014),PitOnTheProwl (07-06-2014)

  12. #9
    BPnet Veteran Mr Oni's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-04-2013
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    634
    Thanks
    352
    Thanked 258 Times in 192 Posts

    Re: Exotic Pet Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by whatsherface View Post
    Just a small point, the 'big game' hunting that you mentioned actually is very good for conservation. Paid hunts bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars to conservation efforts, help preserve habitat, and protect the existing animal populations from poaching. Its a very different situation from the illegal smuggling and poaching of animals. (Also, any animals being flown to a ranch in Texas with the intent of hunting them are illegally obtained. That is not a legal practice and is in fact poaching.)

    WWF- Hunting for Conservation

    Hunting As a Conservation Tool

    Trophy Hunting in The Context of Conservation


    Most of what people tend to think of when they hear "exotic pet trade" is animals being wild caught and poached illegally. That or people releasing their snakes and such "back to the wild". Many don't both to educate themselves on the captive populations that typically serve as exotic pets, so exotic pet owners often get cast as shady people when that's really not the truth in most cases. Fact is, it is the people who acquire large, dangerous animals without regulation that give the industry a bad name. The people who let their lions escape, or get hurt when they get too comfortable around a tiger (which is not just "a big *****cat" as some seem to believe). I'm not against private ownership of large exotics. But there is an extreme lack of regulation that often leads to misconceptions and laws like those in West Virginia. If you want a tiger, fine, but there should be mandatory education before being permitted to acquire one, background checks, inspections to guarantee an animal's proper care, assessments of enclosures to ensure the safety of both the animal and the community. There need to be regulated channels to go through. Many states either have ridiculous restrictions (like WV) or none at all, and that is an issue that needs to be addressed. The answer is not a shut down on the exotic animal industry, but a monitoring of it. And higher punishments and criminal charges for those who illegal obtain, smuggle, or poach animals. This would discourage the illegal capture of animals and encourage the existence of a captive bred population, which would in turn create a healthier population in captivity without the risk of parasites and illness from a wild caught/poached animal. The process of being smuggled leads to so many sick, ill, injured, and dead animals with little consequence for the perpetrators.
    Yes, killing endangered/threatened animals is a great way to help the environment and conserve the animals.....by killing them.

    I start fires to help prevent future fires.



    Sent from MY MOM!
    Balls
    1.0 Bumblebee Het Ghost
    1.0 Power ball
    0.1 Fire Ghost
    0.1 Butter Pin
    Milks
    1.0 Eastern milk snake
    0.1 Extreme Hypo Honduran
    Hognose
    0.1 Western hognose Albino
    Leopard Gecko
    1.0 Sunglow


    Beware his song about big butts. He beats you up while he ppppllllaaaaysss iiiit-- Eyugh!

  13. #10
    Registered User whatsherface's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-17-2014
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    209
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 88 Times in 54 Posts
    Images: 9

    Re: Exotic Pet Trade?

    Actually, fires are sometimes set by firefighters and park rangers to control the spread of forest fires? So...

    None of the animals killed in legal paid hunts are endangered. I don't like sport hunting, but I also don't see people giving 30,000+ dollars to a reserve in Africa 'just 'cause.' It sucks, but at least it's regulated and monitored. More focus needs to be put on the people sneaking into reserves and cutting the horns off rhinos than is given to rich morons (who do not hunt endangered animals, by the way). These poachers are the problem. The people smuggling animals out of the country as pets and as targets are the problem. The people who paid to be allowed onto a reserve with a guide (who works for the reserve and carefully monitors the ecological balance of the park) who picked exactly which animal to be killed with the least amount of impact on the population are not the problem. The lack of proper legal consequences/punishments for poachers and smugglers is the problem.

    People who pay tens of thousands of dollars to hunt a single animal have done more for conservation than acknowledged because no one like when cute animals die. There are hundreds of threatened and endangered animals that are not adorable (insects, arachnids, amphibians) that you don't hear about and no one cares about because they're all so devoted to the cute/pretty ones. You can't get people to care when deforestation is decimating endangered insect and frog populations but mention a dead cute animal and people are through the roof. You can't get people to help an animal rescue unless you put puppies and kittens in the ad somehow, even though reptiles and birds needs rescuing too. Millions of dollars are put to artificially inseminating pandas, why isn't any of that being put towards conservation of other endangered animals? Why aren't more dollars going to programs for breeding and eventual release to the wild? Why is so much attention given to the birth of white tigers, who will never be released into the wild but only serve to make zoos more money? Why aren't more animal poachers and smugglers put in jail instead of just getting a slap on the wrist?

    That is where the spotlight needs to be.
    -Hannah

    0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake (Wednesday)

    Ball Pythons
    1.0 Normal (Pugsley)
    2.0 Cinnamon (Peep & Tank)
    1.0 Lesserbee (Lemon Meringue)
    0.1 Super Pastel (Dollop)
    0.1 Pewter (Trifle)
    0.1 Hypo Pastel (French Toast)
    0.1 Mojave (Tiramisu)
    0.1 Pastel Sugar (Boston Creme Pie)

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to whatsherface For This Useful Post:

    Bluebonnet Herp (07-06-2014),HVani (07-06-2014)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.1