Would you pay more for a ball python or boa with a recent clean IBD test?

[artgecko]

I think it would mean more to me to know that the animal came from a "clean" collection... i.e. the breeder tested all of their breeding stock and they were all clean.

I don't have any experience with this disease, so I'll have to do more research before I vote in the poll.

[FireStorm]

I think I would be more likely to just have the animal tested after purchase (while in QT). I don't see any way to verify that the test actually goes with the snake you are purchasing, so I'd rather just have it tested myself.

[patientz3ro]

How then do you prove which animal is the origional carrier to hold a breeder accountable for it once all your snakes are dead?

I guess I was a little unclear on that point. Basically, having a snake come from a breeder with papers wouldn't be worth more. The test its self is useful. I don't know that you LEGALLY would be able to hold a breeder accountable.

I think I would be more likely to just have the animal tested after purchase (while in QT). I don't see any way to verify that the test actually goes with the snake you are purchasing, so I'd rather just have it tested myself.

This.


Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk

[Skiploder]

As this test becomes more popular, some things are going to be clarified.

Remember, in past studies, up to 1/3 of "clean" boas in an IBD control group tested positive as asymptomatic IBD carriers. Boa breeders should embrace this test and work with Dr. Jacobsen and other researchers to certify their breeding animals as clear. But I predict that they won't.

Doesn't really matter - because what we think of IBD today and what we think of IBD as screening becomes more acute will change.

In a hobby where most people DON'T take their animals to the vet, and in a hobby where most vets treat reptiles without having the proper requisite knowledge - the early reports of IBD wiping out entire collections is specious. Many of those accounts never identified IBD as the causative agent - it was always ASSumed. In some cases, they were later identified as OPMV or even viral meningitis - quietly.

In time, this test will clarify exactly how many snakes - both python and boa - are asymptomatic carriers and what the actual carrier rate is.

[Evenstar]

As usual Skip, well said.

Personally, I plan to BE one of those breeders who embraces this test and has all their stock tested - whether part of my breeding groups or not (if its in my collection, it will be tested). Unfortunately, the test isn't available in my area yet. However, it will be eventually. Until then, I'll practice buying from reputable breeders only and a strict q/t of at least 90 days.

But I wouldn't expect for someone to pay more for one of my babies just because the parents were "certified" as clear of IBD. I would do the testing for my own knowledge and peace of mind. I could show buyers the parents' and my stock's test results if they wanted to see it, but that would just be part of the general information pack I would give at the time of sale.

To answer the original question, I don't think I'd pay more for a boa that is already "certified" clear. Who administered the test? How long ago was the test done? What has the snake been exposed to between the time the test was done and the time I purchased it?

If someone else did the testing, it doesn't mean a whole lot to me. So why would I pay more? I will test each snake I buy afterwards during it's q/t time. If a test result comes back positive, well, among other issues of course, I'd discuss the matter with the seller at that point.

[Royal Hijinx]

Man is this true! Papers on hets are worthless unless they're from Ralph Davis or something. Would think people would just start making their own "lab results".

That is a bit of a ridiculous statement. While there are a handful of dishonest folks out there, the overwhelming majority are on the up and up. Having a big name does not ensure honesty, and not having one does not ensure dishonesty.

If I kept/bred boas, I would weigh having this done, and if it were a reasonable price per animal, why not have it done. Problem is, when if a good chunk of your breeding colony comes back as carriers? Are you going to cull them? Up to this point, you really cannot blame the person you got it from if you have an asymptomatic carrier, so what will you do? One of the biggest barriers will be that folks do not want to have answer this question.

I laud this as a very important step to wiping out the condition, but putting it in to effect will a whole other issue.

As far as paying extra, I think the cost of the test suffices as any added on charge.

[PitOnTheProwl]

That is a bit of a ridiculous statement. While there are a handful of dishonest folks out there, the overwhelming majority are on the up and up. Having a big name does not ensure honesty, and not having one does not ensure dishonesty.

Not to jack but I hate to disagree with you here. There are too many people trying to make a quick buck and think claiming "HET" to get a higher price. I am not saying they are all crooked but lets be honest. Any written document can be faked.
Not to just jab the little guys but I had a collection I was keeping for an unnamed member here and I sexed all of the snakes and labeled them when I took in the collection. There was a Fire in question because this female that came from BHB had two nice big hemis Mistakes can be made but paperwork is not trustable.

[Skiploder]

My bold prediction:

The number of asymptomatic carriers uncovered by this test will shock the crap out of a lot of people. In time, as the test becomes more popular, you will need to screen your collection in order to move a snake to anyone who knows what IBD is.

If I were a boa breeder I would get ahead of the curve and clear my animals now and not do business without anyone who can produce the paperwork showing their stock is clean.

If people are serious about wiping out IBD they will embrace this test............another bold prediction, the bigger names will pay lip service to this test; namely mouth how great it is............what a break through it is.........blah, blah, blah.

But they won't test their animals.

Who's gonna step up and prove me wrong?

[bcr229]

If I kept/bred boas, I would weigh having this done, and if it were a reasonable price per animal, why not have it done. Problem is, when if a good chunk of your breeding colony comes back as carriers? Are you going to cull them? Up to this point, you really cannot blame the person you got it from if you have an asymptomatic carrier, so what will you do? One of the biggest barriers will be that folks do not want to have answer this question.

Which brings up another elephant in the room. Quite a few respondents said they wouldn't trust the seller's test results and would get their own done on their boas shortly after they arrived. As was pointed out, BP's most likely would die within the QT period if infected with IBD while boas can carry it for years.

So, hypothetically, what if your new boa does pop up as a carrier? Naturally you inform the seller, and if you're dealing with an ethical seller you will be able to return the snake. The seller should lock down his collection, test every boid, cull and/or isolate infected snakes, etc. BUT the herp world attracts its share of scoundrels, people who won't accept a return and who will keep selling - or you may even see the IBD-positive snake you returned up for sale again.

[bcr229]

The number of asymptomatic carriers uncovered by this test will shock the crap out of a lot of people. In time, as the test becomes more popular, you will need to screen your collection in order to move a snake to anyone who knows what IBD is.

If I were a boa breeder I would get ahead of the curve and clear my animals now and not do business without anyone who can produce the paperwork showing their stock is clean.

This is what I was getting at - a reputable seller will test, in fact, will have to test - because if buyers routinely have new arrivals tested as part of the QT process, then selling just one carrier of IBD will put a rather permanent crimp in your sales.