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  1. #61
    Registered User ViperSRT3g's Avatar
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    Re: So anyways...

    Quote Originally Posted by NH93 View Post
    On another forum I peruse, someone has said that they seemed to have 'trained' their corn snake to poop in a specific garbage can. According to this source, what he intially did was take the snake out and hold it over said garbage can (I can't remember the colour of it... may or may not factor in) and wait for it to do it's thing. He did it for weeks, and apparently the snake only goes in the garbage can now.

    My guess is he got it out and moving around to get the bowls going, then held it over the can and waited, and continued doing so for several weeks as he said. BUT the snake no longer goes in its vive, apparently. Even if he feeds it two meals, or doesn't take it out 'to poop' on the normally scheduled day to do so (my guess is about 3 days after eating).

    Unfortunately I can't find the thread, and it was a few months ago... so I could be getting some details mixed up.

    Regardless, what do you all think about that?

    I think it is possible! Like, if you kept on a schedule as you would with feeding. It's a fun idea anyways kind of like litter training... ish.
    I've always hoped it would be possible to train snakes to do certain small tasks on their own. Potty training being a key thing. Imagine only having to clean up a small area of your tank because it's the "poop corner" or not at all because your snake poops in the garbage or the toilet? Or not having to worry about your snake pooping on you? That's happened to me a couple of times :[
    Quote Originally Posted by dkspftw View Post
    My ball pythons, so far as I can tell so far, are idiots. Lovable all the same, but not smart. In fact, my main moral dilemma as a BP keeper is the fact that we have to feed animals that are so smart (rats) to ones that are basically as dumb as logs.

    I'm working on a Snake Tracker App! If you have any ideas or suggestions on features, feel free to post them in the Development Thread! I'll also be posting updates on the development of this program in this thread!

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  3. #62
    BPnet Lifer Skiploder's Avatar
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    Re: Colubrids vs Boids - Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal View Post
    Skip, I still haven't seen it happen. So my original statement may of been wrong, but it was from the experience that I have. Yes I don't keep cobras so I don't see them daily and I don't see their feeding responses. So with all that said I may of been wrong. If so then I'll gladly admit that I am, but I have yet to see it happen, but that doesn't mean it hasn't or it can't happen. I don't claim to know everything, I was simply pointing out the Crotalids that I haven't witnessed it happen. Then I just asked him to provide proof, so that way I can see first hand and correct my information.

    I haven't seen a man lift a vehicle, but I remember seeing something on the news ages ago about a man lifting a car off of a kid to save the kids life. I'm not saying it can't be done but I've not seen it. I probably should of put that in my experience I haven't seen one strike up from a hooded position, that probably would of saved the whole argument. The way I was approached put me in the wrong mood, so with you being a friend and somebody I respect a lot I find your approach a lot differently. So yea, I'm probably wrong, but again with my limited experience I've yet to see it. I'm actually glad I haven't because if I would of then I would of most likely gotten bit.
    Neal, it's cool. I think that guys like Crotalids and Najakeeper and other hot herpers live in a world where the difference between life as usual and a trip to the ER is defined by never taking anything for granted and learning their snakes - not relying on opinion. Relying on opinion or on someone else's opinion can cost your dearly when dealing with hot herps.

    I kept boomslangs for a while as well as cerastes and native crotalids. The game of inches wore on me and frankly made the hobby much less enjoyable. But I understand the mindset and how realizing that there are no absolutes when it comes to snake behavior can make all the difference in the world.

    I'm not going to name names, but there was a well-known hot keeper who got tagged by his atrox because it was HIS opinion that vipers would always focus on a heat source when striking and disregard all other movement as long as the heat source was moving. He would distract the snake with his bare left hand and then tail it with a gloved right hand. He would tell anyone who would listen that this was an iron clad truth with viperids.

    For many years, that tactic worked until he took a massive hit on his gloved right hand while trying to tail said atrox.

    See, HIS opinion did not matter to the snake. HIS opinion meant diddly over squat in the end.
    Last edited by Skiploder; 01-23-2014 at 08:33 PM.

  4. #63
    BPnet Senior Member Bluebonnet Herp's Avatar
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    Re: Colubrids vs Boids - Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by Skiploder View Post
    I'm not going to name names, but there was a well-known hot keeper who got tagged by his atrox because it was HIS opinion that vipers would always focus on a heat source when striking and disregard all other movement as long as the heat source was moving. He would distract the snake with his bare left hand and then tail it with a gloved right hand. He would tell anyone who would listen that this was an iron clad truth with viperids.

    For many years, that tactic worked until he took a massive hit on his gloved right hand while trying to tail said atrox.
    Sounds like Murphy's law. From what I've been told, getting comfortable around hots is the last mistake anyone wants to make. There isn't any room for "opinions."

  5. #64
    BPnet Senior Member Bluebonnet Herp's Avatar
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    Re: So anyways...

    Quote Originally Posted by NH93 View Post
    On another forum I peruse, someone has said that they seemed to have 'trained' their corn snake to poop in a specific garbage can. According to this source, what he intially did was take the snake out and hold it over said garbage can (I can't remember the colour of it... may or may not factor in) and wait for it to do it's thing. He did it for weeks, and apparently the snake only goes in the garbage can now.

    My guess is he got it out and moving around to get the bowls going, then held it over the can and waited, and continued doing so for several weeks as he said. BUT the snake no longer goes in its vive, apparently. Even if he feeds it two meals, or doesn't take it out 'to poop' on the normally scheduled day to do so (my guess is about 3 days after eating).

    Unfortunately I can't find the thread, and it was a few months ago... so I could be getting some details mixed up.

    Regardless, what do you all think about that?

    I think it is possible! Like, if you kept on a schedule as you would with feeding. It's a fun idea anyways kind of like litter training... ish.
    Maybe. One lady on youtube (anyone who lurks the video tubes probably knows who I'm talking about) did the same with her carpet python. It only poops outside. I think it's likely the snake learns to associate certain surroundings with doing a certain natural action, and picks up on the habit. I remember reading about one reticulated python who learned part of his enclosure cleaning routine. After his enclosure was cleaned, he would be moved from his holding container back to his cage. After a while, he would just crawl out of the holding container and back into his enclosure without any assistance.

  6. #65
    Venom Life Neal's Avatar
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    Re: Colubrids vs Boids - Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by Skiploder View Post
    Neal, it's cool. I think that guys like Crotalids and Najakeeper and other hot herpers live in a world where the difference between life as usual and a trip to the ER is defined by never taking anything for granted and learning their snakes - not relying on opinion. Relying on opinion or on someone else's opinion can cost your dearly when dealing with hot herps.

    I kept boomslangs for a while as well as cerastes and native crotalids. The game of inches wore on me and frankly made the hobby much less enjoyable. But I understand the mindset and how realizing that there are no absolutes when it comes to snake behavior can make all the difference in the world.

    I'm not going to name names, but there was a well-known hot keeper who got tagged by his atrox because it was HIS opinion that vipers would always focus on a heat source when striking and disregard all other movement as long as the heat source was moving. He would distract the snake with his bare left hand and then tail it with a gloved right hand. He would tell anyone who would listen that this was an iron clad truth with viperids.

    For many years, that tactic worked until he took a massive hit on his gloved right hand while trying to tail said atrox.

    See, HIS opinion did not matter to the snake. HIS opinion meant diddly over squat in the end.
    Reminds me that we thought that Rufous hunted primarily with sight, but when I did my little study of hand feeding one tried to eat my pinky finger lol. They do rely on scent when they go into feeding mode. So yea, I see your point bro.
    -Venomous-

    1.0 - Naja siamensis - Zeus (Black & White Spitting Cobra)
    1.0 - Naja n. woodi - Hades (Black Spitting Cobra)
    0.1 - Naja nigricollis - Athena (Black-necked Spitting Cobra)

    coming at some point in the future
    Naja annulata (Ringed Water Cobra)




  7. #66
    BPnet Senior Member Bluebonnet Herp's Avatar
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    Re: Colubrids vs Boids - Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal View Post
    Reminds me that we thought that Rufous hunted primarily with sight, but when I did my little study of hand feeding one tried to eat my pinky finger lol. They do rely on scent when they go into feeding mode. So yea, I see your point bro.
    Don't you think it's possible that they, by chance, rely on both sight and scent to hunt? Just imagine what it would be like to have the eyes of a snake though- they typically only see from the sides of their heads as their eyes don't point forward much (although there are exceptions, as many arboreal species are) which would effect their depth perception and focus, not to mention how small those eyeballs are. Snakes, like a lot of predators (and human males, apparently) have eyesight that's quite sensitive to movement. According to that study I posted, they can also pick up details. Just only as they would see it.
    Your pinky, having the smell of a mouse, was likely seen as, coincidentally, a mouse pinky. (lol) Odds are, he probably didn't notice it as attached to your hand, or not having any other rodent like features.

  8. #67
    Venom Life Neal's Avatar
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    Re: Colubrids vs Boids - Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by pythonminion View Post
    Don't you think it's possible that they, by chance, rely on both sight and scent to hunt? Just imagine what it would be like to have the eyes of a snake though- they typically only see from the sides of their heads as their eyes don't point forward much (although there are exceptions, as many arboreal species are) which would effect their depth perception and focus, not to mention how small those eyeballs are. Snakes, like a lot of predators (and human males, apparently) have eyesight that's quite sensitive to movement. According to that study I posted, they can also pick up details. Just only as they would see it.
    Your pinky, having the smell of a mouse, was likely seen as, coincidentally, a mouse pinky. (lol) Odds are, he probably didn't notice it as attached to your hand, or not having any other rodent like features.
    There was no pinky after he was done eating, the pinky was sitting on my palm, and he went for my pinky. So while he may of still used sight, he relied more on scent.
    -Venomous-

    1.0 - Naja siamensis - Zeus (Black & White Spitting Cobra)
    1.0 - Naja n. woodi - Hades (Black Spitting Cobra)
    0.1 - Naja nigricollis - Athena (Black-necked Spitting Cobra)

    coming at some point in the future
    Naja annulata (Ringed Water Cobra)




  9. #68
    BPnet Veteran patientz3ro's Avatar
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    Re: Colubrids vs Boids - Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal View Post
    There was no pinky after he was done eating, the pinky was sitting on my palm, and he went for my pinky. So while he may of still used sight, he relied more on scent.
    It's most likely a bit more complicated than that, but you're headed in the right direction.

    For an animal that lacks binocular vision, depth perception works a lot like a camera. If you look at a photo with a very shallow depth of field, you'll have an idea of how the world looks to them, because they can only focus at one distance at a time. Your fingertip probably looked just like a pinky mouse, since the rest of your hand was out of focus. The fact that you smelled like a mouse just confirmed it for the snake. It's not so much that he relied on scent to find prey. It's more like he saw something that looked like prey, and the scent agreed with the eyes.

    Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk

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  11. #69
    Venom Life Neal's Avatar
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    Re: Colubrids vs Boids - Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by patientz3ro View Post
    It's most likely a bit more complicated than that, but you're headed in the right direction.

    For an animal that lacks binocular vision, depth perception works a lot like a camera. If you look at a photo with a very shallow depth of field, you'll have an idea of how the world looks to them, because they can only focus at one distance at a time. Your fingertip probably looked just like a pinky mouse, since the rest of your hand was out of focus. The fact that you smelled like a mouse just confirmed it for the snake. It's not so much that he relied on scent to find prey. It's more like he saw something that looked like prey, and the scent agreed with the eyes.

    Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk
    Yea, but it's the wrong color .

    Yea, I don't know about all the depth perception and all but it makes sense.
    -Venomous-

    1.0 - Naja siamensis - Zeus (Black & White Spitting Cobra)
    1.0 - Naja n. woodi - Hades (Black Spitting Cobra)
    0.1 - Naja nigricollis - Athena (Black-necked Spitting Cobra)

    coming at some point in the future
    Naja annulata (Ringed Water Cobra)




  12. #70
    BPnet Senior Member Bluebonnet Herp's Avatar
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    Re: Colubrids vs Boids - Intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by patientz3ro View Post
    It's most likely a bit more complicated than that, but you're headed in the right direction.

    For an animal that lacks binocular vision, depth perception works a lot like a camera. If you look at a photo with a very shallow depth of field, you'll have an idea of how the world looks to them, because they can only focus at one distance at a time. Your fingertip probably looked just like a pinky mouse, since the rest of your hand was out of focus. The fact that you smelled like a mouse just confirmed it for the snake. It's not so much that he relied on scent to find prey. It's more like he saw something that looked like prey, and the scent agreed with the eyes.

    Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk
    Wow, you said it hell of a lot better than I did. Kudos!

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