Cloud, Colombian BCI

[Gio]

I agree, Cloud looks much better in the newer pics. Doolittle and Evenstar, those are really great examples of lean boas. I think there is some debate on rabbits, and I have caught wind of a few people saying the fat content is less than rats. There could be some merit to feeding a rabbit equivalent.

I think if Cloud exercises enough and goes a month without food he should do just fine.

I also enjoy seeing pictures so keep posting them!

[Evenstar]

I agree, Cloud looks much better in the newer pics. Doolittle and Evenstar, those are really great examples of lean boas. I think there is some debate on rabbits, and I have caught wind of a few people saying the fat content is less than rats. There could be some merit to feeding a rabbit equivalent.

I think if Cloud exercises enough and goes a month without food he should do just fine.

I also enjoy seeing pictures so keep posting them!

I don't think there's anything wrong with rabbits at all. In fact, they probably do have a better nutritional content than rats, strictly speaking. It's just that small rabbits that are about the same size as large rats are somewhat hard to find and can be expensive. It is also pretty easy to overfeed your boa anyway - but even easier when they are on rabbits.

This is one reason why I want to incorporate quail in my boas' diets like you've done, Gio. I want them to have better nutrition than rats alone can give, but still not have to move to rabbits.


**By the way, I'm in the process of putting together a collection thread with updated pics on all my guys. Look for it later tonight....

[DooLittle]

**By the way, I'm in the process of putting together a collection thread with updated pics on all my guys. Look for it later tonight....

Cannot wait to see this!!

OP, Cloud should trim down just fine with cutting back. Mine started to get a bit chubby on 10 days. Not long after bumping them back to 2 weeks,, they looked nice and lean again.

[CloudtheBoa]

Just now found this thread. Cloud is a handsome fellow!

DooLittle has given you great advice on feeding. I also am not aware of anyone with a top-notch reputation who recommends that 10-15% rule for boas. Boas have a MUCH slower metabolism than either Ball Pythons or Retics and they do not need to eat such large prey items. Slower and less is much healthier for boas. The appropriate prey size for a boa should NOT leave any noticeable lump at all. An adult male Colombian boa constrictor can live exclusively on rats for his entire life. 1 jumbo or 2 large rats every 3-4 weeks is perfectly fine for any adult, even most females. This is what I do for my boas:

Babies (neonate to 1 year) - Start on hopper mice up to appropriate size as baby grows. One mouse every 7-10 days.
Juveniles (1-2 years) - Keep on mice up to large size then switch to similar size rat. One every 10-14 days.
Young adults (2-3 years) - One appropriately sized rat every 14-21 days.
Adults (3+ years and breeders) - One appropriately sized rat every 21 days, except breeding females are fed a bit more and gravid females are fed a bit less. Seasonal drops are also effective.

I've based my feeding schedule on the advice of Gus Rentfro (Rio Bravo), Vin Russo (Cutting Edge Herps), Donnie Smith (Prima Reptilia), and JB (Jonathan Brady - Deviant Constrictors). There is NO ONE else who gives better or more knowledgeable advice than these folks. They are the foremost authority on captive boa constrictor care and breeding. Vin Russo wrote the boa-bible - "The Complete Boa Constrictor" and introduced the first captive boas to the US (I forget exactly when - 1970's?? Gio, help me out here?? My book isn't handy at the moment....).

But it's also important to note that this is just a guide. You have to be a bit flexible with feeding and do slightly more or less often depending on your individual. I also want to begin offering quail in my boas' diets so I may feed a bit more often if I do that. I do not nor will I offer rabbits to any of my boas - including my females (with the exception perhaps of my female Argentine eventually).


What Gio said here is extremely accurate. I would want to know more about this "wild" animal. What is the source of this picture? If it is, in fact, a gravid female, then she is in no way obese. And wild boas can and do eat very large prey items because they may have to go months before they can catch their next meal. Captivity means a different lifestyle for our animals. We provide for their every need. They have to live in a tiny environment compared to the wild and they get fed whenever they are hungry. In order to be healthy in captivity, it is our responsibility to adjust their feeding to make that be so. What a boa does and looks like in the wild cannot be compared to what they do and should look like in captivity.

And as Gio and DooLittle also said, no one is down on you. We are just here to help and to offer accurate and sensible advice. I understand how frustrating it can be to weed through all that conflicting information. That's why I showed you my own schedule and told you who has helped me. This is tried and true information from professionals you can trust.

Yes, he gained a lot of weight from the rabbit as I said. Here's a photo of him right before (he did gain a pound, remember!) eating and 4-5 weeks after his last rat that I posted earlier in the thread. He hadn't been taken out in over a month, or eaten in about that time so he wasn't looking his best. I was surprised, because he looked a lot different from the time before I was kicked out and actually had me worried a bit because he looked thinner and flabbier. Is it ok to keep him on the rabbits, or are they too fatty? Because on the rats, at his current size and from 5.5ft he's only averaged around 6lbs, and 7lbs 11.6oz was his heaviest weight to date prior to the rabbits. Would it be fine if I fed them only once a month as Gio said, and go with my plan to alternate with other prey items?


Here are some examples of prey size he's been given, these were the standard size he got when he was small. The size compared to his girth became a little bit bigger once he was on larges. I can also provide pics of the few bigger meals I fed, which were only on a few occasions from misjudgement on my part:

November 22, 2012.


March 20, 2013.


Not quite as big around as he is, but nearly. July 9, 2012.



Eating a large rat (175-179 grams), smaller around than he is. Taken at the beginning of August.


Just in case people point out to me: yes, I used to feed outside the enclosure. No, I do not still do that. The photo above is the last feeding photo I took since I started feeding in the enclosure around the beginning or middle of last summer, so it's the most recent on I can offer.

As far as the story behind the photo, I'm not sure. They were taken by a wildlife photographer who's name I've seen quite often. This photo can also be found in one of his galleries here: http://www.waynelynch.ca/neotropical_gallery.html

Well Ripley wasn't much interested in cooperating for pictures. But you can see the muscles in her back, and maybe get an idea for girth.



This was from last summer-


And this is my newest worm, Remi. You can kinda get an idea of baby size from these pics, and you can see how boxy he is.





And here is my male (he is actually closer to 1.5 than 2. I thought he was April, but isn't). You can see his boxy muscular shape (lol, he's giving Finn a ride :p).


Evenstar left some great advice. She is very knowledgeable! Hope this helps.

That's actually similar to the body shape I'm used to seeing in Cloud, except he's taller. Usually I can see the muscle on his back, but he gained some weight from the rabbits, which is why (if I continue to feed them) I will be spacing them out a lot more. He got a little bit chubby there. lol

They're all beautiful, especially Remi.

I think I'll take everyone's advice on the winter drops, as looking at photos, he does seem to get chubbier in the colder weather. Not sure if it's due to me not taking him out as much, or what. During the summer, I usually take him out about every day to crawl around in the sun for about an hour, two at most, but never more.

[CloudtheBoa]

I don't think there's anything wrong with rabbits at all. In fact, they probably do have a better nutritional content than rats, strictly speaking. It's just that small rabbits that are about the same size as large rats are somewhat hard to find and can be expensive. It is also pretty easy to overfeed your boa anyway - but even easier when they are on rabbits.

This is one reason why I want to incorporate quail in my boas' diets like you've done, Gio. I want them to have better nutrition than rats alone can give, but still not have to move to rabbits.


**By the way, I'm in the process of putting together a collection thread with updated pics on all my guys. Look for it later tonight....

I just saw this post. Woops. Around here, find 1/2lb rabbits was extremely difficult, but once he got big enough for 1lb I got a surprising amount of answers....They're pretty cheap, and will cut my weekly costs for everyone by half or more since 1) they don't need to be fed often and 2) buying one rabbit for 4 weeks is cheaper than buying TWO rats for one month (feeding on a biweekly schedule). So, it's cheaper for me to feed rabbits, and they're not difficult to find. I do plan on rotating with rats, but I really don't want to deal with quail poop. Yuck.

[Evenstar]

Yes, he gained a lot of weight from the rabbit as I said. Here's a photo of him right before (he did gain a pound, remember!) eating and 4-5 weeks after his last rat that I posted earlier in the thread. He hadn't been taken out in over a month, or eaten in about that time so he wasn't looking his best. I was surprised, because he looked a lot different from the time before I was kicked out and actually had me worried a bit because he looked thinner and flabbier. Is it ok to keep him on the rabbits, or are they too fatty? Because on the rats, at his current size and from 5.5ft he's only averaged around 6lbs, and 7lbs 11.6oz was his heaviest weight to date prior to the rabbits. Would it be fine if I fed them only once a month as Gio said, and go with my plan to alternate with other prey items?

Personally, I think he's a little small to handle rabbits. On the other hand, if you have a supply of very small rabbits (essentially babies), then he might be ok with that. Honestly, Cloud is about the same size as my 2010 Argentine and my boy is eating one medium rat every 2 weeks or so. I personally feel that feeding smaller prey slightly more often (but not too often) is better.

The rabbits won't be too fatty - they're good nutrition - but they might still be a bit much for Cloud to handle on a regular basis. If you want to incorporate them into his diet, either wait til next year or feed him a rats regularly with a rabbit once every 3-4 months. Or you can give quail a try. Gio can tell you more about that, or you can read about that on JB's blog: http://deviantconstrictors.com/blog/...r-my-boas.html

There is nothing wrong with rabbits. The rabbit is not the issue. The overall size of the prey (no matter what it is) and the frequency of the feeding is what is important here. If you really like the rabbits and can get small ones, keep him on them! Just give your boy plenty of exercise and be careful not to give him something too large.

[Evenstar]

I just saw this post. Woops. Around here, find 1/2lb rabbits was extremely difficult, but once he got big enough for 1lb I got a surprising amount of answers....They're pretty cheap, and will cut my weekly costs for everyone by half or more since 1) they don't need to be fed often and 2) buying one rabbit for 4 weeks is cheaper than buying TWO rats for one month (feeding on a biweekly schedule). So, it's cheaper for me to feed rabbits, and they're not difficult to find. I do plan on rotating with rats, but I really don't want to deal with quail poop. Yuck.

Hahaha! We overlapped!

If you think you want to consider quail, Gio will tell you that the poop is not bad at all. In fact, once they get cleaned out, their poop actually gets BETTER.

[CloudtheBoa]

Personally, I think he's a little small to handle rabbits. On the other hand, if you have a supply of very small rabbits (essentially babies), then he might be ok with that. Honestly, Cloud is about the same size as my 2010 Argentine and my boy is eating one medium rat every 2 weeks or so. I personally feel that feeding smaller prey slightly more often (but not too often) is better.

The rabbits won't be too fatty - they're good nutrition - but they might still be a bit much for Cloud to handle on a regular basis. If you want to incorporate them into his diet, either wait til next year or feed him a rats regularly with a rabbit once every 3-4 months. Or you can give quail a try. Gio can tell you more about that, or you can read about that on JB's blog: http://deviantconstrictors.com/blog/...r-my-boas.html

There is nothing wrong with rabbits. The rabbit is not the issue. The overall size of the prey (no matter what it is) and the frequency of the feeding is what is important here. If you really like the rabbits and can get small ones, keep him on them! Just give your boy plenty of exercise and be careful not to give him something too large.

The rabbits I'm getting are babies of a similar size to the large rat I post before, so they are also smaller around than he is. Without the fur of course, being babies they have some fluffy fur!

Hahaha! We overlapped!

If you think you want to consider quail, Gio will tell you that the poop is not bad at all. In fact, once they get cleaned out, their poop actually gets BETTER.

I heard they were runny as well, which is actually my problem. lol Very rarely does he poop in his water dish, so I have to pick it up and it takes so long to expand EcoEarth for his gigantic enclosure I don't like doing big substrate changes often. >.> But, yeah, if they're not as runny as I've heard and they smell better I may go with a few every once in awhile. Because his rat poops smelled terrible, but with EcoEarth's wonderful ability to clear the air, you couldn't smell it immediately upon removal. Now the poop he had from that rabbit steeped nicely in his water dish and was TOXIC. I think all that fur was what did it, but I barely made it to the toilet with the bowl. XD

[Evenstar]

The rabbits I'm getting are babies of a similar size to the large rat I post before, so they are also smaller around than he is. Without the fur of course, being babies they have some fluffy fur!

I heard they were runny as well, which is actually my problem. lol Very rarely does he poop in his water dish, so I have to pick it up and it takes so long to expand EcoEarth for his gigantic enclosure I don't like doing big substrate changes often. >.> But, yeah, if they're not as runny as I've heard and they smell better I may go with a few every once in awhile. Because his rat poops smelled terrible, but with EcoEarth's wonderful ability to clear the air, you couldn't smell it immediately upon removal. Now the poop he had from that rabbit steeped nicely in his water dish and was TOXIC. I think all that fur was what did it, but I barely made it to the toilet with the bowl. XD

Roflmao. No matter what they eat, if it steeps in the water bowl, it's going to be toxic as heck!

[CloudtheBoa]

Roflmao. No matter what they eat, if it steeps in the water bowl, it's going to be toxic as heck!

I've smelled his rat poop steep...and then there's that rabbit poop...whole different ball game. lol

As far as cooling his temps, I'll wait until he voids before doing so just so to be safe. How much cooler should I make it? I can't set (or at least haven't figured out how) to set the differential or whatever on his Herpstat so it does what it wants. Hot side 85-87F and hot spot 90F hot. Cool side ~80F. With spring just around the corner, maybe a month more, should I even bother this year?