Cloud, Colombian BCI

[DooLittle]

The 10-15% prey rule is for balls (and youngsters at that), not boas. At his age he should not be eating weekly. Many breeders start babies out on a 10 day feed schedule. He should be eating an appropriate size item every 2 ish weeks. My almost 2 year old boas are eating a medium-ish rat every 2 weeks. They are nice and lean, and I can see their muscles. He shouldn't be on rabbits yet. A male BCI, should be able to get by with rats his whole life. I would back him off. He is very large for his age, and imo, too big, and eating too much.

[Tarzan152]

Those are some drop dead, gorgeous pictures of your Boa. The outdoor ones are my favorite. Keep up the great work and the pics..

[CloudtheBoa]

The 10-15% prey rule is for balls (and youngsters at that), not boas. At his age he should not be eating weekly. Many breeders start babies out on a 10 day feed schedule. He should be eating an appropriate size item every 2 ish weeks. My almost 2 year old boas are eating a medium-ish rat every 2 weeks. They are nice and lean, and I can see their muscles. He shouldn't be on rabbits yet. A male BCI, should be able to get by with rats his whole life. I would back him off. He is very large for his age, and imo, too big, and eating too much.

I did not know that. I was suggested this diet by several people who use the same method for their boa constrictors, ball pythons, and reticulated pythons. The very first photo I posted on here was a product of a 7-10 day schedule as a baby and he looked anorexically skinny to me. Maybe it was just the way the photo was taken, then, or I'm just not used to seeing baby weight.

I have also already stated he is no longer on a weekly schedule. With his last rat I started a biweekly schedule (as in before that rat I waited 2 weeks), and then his next meal (which was his first rabbit) was 4-5 weeks later, I waited 2 weeks to give him his next rabbit, and I think I will be waiting an extra week or two before giving him the remaining rabbit.

I get so many mixed opinions on feeding. 7-10 day as babies, every 5 days as babies. Once a year old they should be fed once every 2 weeks, they should be fed weekly until 2 years old. A 6ft boa can be started on rabbits, never feed rabbits. Don't feed jumbos because they are fattier than rabbits, don't feed rabbits because they're as fatty as Guinea pigs. Rats are more nutritious, rabbits are more nutritious. My take on it was to try the rabbits anyway, less often than fed on rats, and see how he does. I tried it at 2 weeks like his recent schedule, that seems to be too often. So I'll try 3 weeks. If that's still too often, I'll try 4 weeks. The only way I'm going to be able to sort through all of this conflicting info is doing it myself because I was obviously getting nowhere with the info being provided.

I was under the impression that 5ft at 2 years was normal, which he was just a few inches over 5ft at 2 years. I think I may have addressed this, but for a month or so I had been feeding him way too large of rats without realizing it. He should have been eating large-ish mediums or small-ish large rats, but he was eating jumbo-sized rats. Maybe that's why he's already jumped up to 6ft in 6 months from 5ft. I have constantly been asking questions concerning eating habits since I got him 2.5 years ago, and nobody has pointed out that I was in the wrong. I guess this will be a learning curve for my next boa.

It's hard to find a decent place to let him stretch out in this apartment because it's so small, but I cleared off a space in the kitchen. This is him today with a full belly ****2 days, nearly 3 days, after eating.***





On my leg.


This is a boa in the wild, which is quite a bit more heavy-set than Cloud. DISCLAIMER: I am not saying all are like this, but if Cloud is fat this one certainly is.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g6...Panama_101.jpg

I am sorry if I sound cross, it's just frustrating trying to sift through all of this information with everyone saying each other is wrong without ever getting to root of everything. I have always been told that Cloud was a nice, lean, muscular boa so I did not know that I was doing anything wrong - it's hard for me to change anything if I don't know! I hope you understand.

[DooLittle]

That picture of the wild boa, is definitely obese. I understand every body is going to do their own thing, I'm just offering my opinion. I have never heard anyone say to feed boas by the 10-15% rule. Never. And those very first baby pictures of cloud where you said he was skinny, he did in fact look to be of of a healthy weight then, not skinny. Boas should be boxy shaped, not round. When I first got boas, this is what I read everywhere. As well as was told by a person very well versed and experienced with boas, whose advice I trust completely. And I have been feeding my boas according to that and they are doing fantastic. And still seem to be growing crazy fast. My female will be 2 in May. I'll try to get her out later and get you a full picture, maybe with a foot in it for comparison. And this is a female.

[CloudtheBoa]

That picture of the wild boa, is definitely obese. I understand every body is going to do their own thing, I'm just offering my opinion. I have never heard anyone say to feed boas by the 10-15% rule. Never. And those very first baby pictures of cloud where you said he was skinny, he did in fact look to be of of a healthy weight then, not skinny. Boas should be boxy shaped, not round. When I first got boas, this is what I read everywhere. As well as was told by a person very well versed and experienced with boas, whose advice I trust completely. And I have been feeding my boas according to that and they are doing fantastic. And still seem to be growing crazy fast. My female will be 2 in May. I'll try to get her out later and get you a full picture, maybe with a foot in it for comparison. And this is a female.

It was a few people, as said, and one person posted a thread on another website of their boas that were on the same rule. Yes, I agree, I thought he was a perfect weight as a baby. The only one I'm kinda skimpy on is that very first one, where he looks very skinny. It could just be the angle, though.

Yes, I would like that.

Would you like a visual representation of the size of food I've given him over the past couple of years? Other than a few hiccups, I have never fed anything bigger around than he is and most were smaller around. He has been looking like he's getting a bit chubby to me lately, but still with that same basic box shape, which is why I'm spacing his feedings out more. I do not plan to feed exclusively rabbits; once I can stock up I'll give him 1 rat to either 2 or 3 rabbits.

[Gio]

Hey,

certainly not the end of the world, and I wish I could get you the old Rio Bravo Reptiles web page. The feeding schedule and seasonal drops were excellent. Vin Russo's book is also helpful. Nobody is down on you. The quick growth of a boa,especially a male just gets some folks worried. Yours is definitely big, but you can lean him out and start making him hunt and wait for his food. Cool your temps and let him go 4 weeks with nothing since you fed the rabbit. It will be healthy for him.

I am sort of in between what breeders do for males and what I've been advised from reputable people for maxing out a male in a healthy fashion. I have personally decided to slow things down a bit and use seasonal drops.

At this point I'd go with Doolittle or Evenstar's advice. Your male is certainly big enough and you can lean him out. You'll want to see some lines on his back and look for a total loaf shape from head to tail.

The wild boa in the pic, if it is in fact wild could be a female, and it could be gravid, or recently have eaten. Wild boas can eat feverishly at certain times of the year and then go months with nothing. They cruise more than a caged boa, and have several obstacles to overcome. There are positives and negatives in the wild. The exercise is a benefit, but the captive environment offers much more safety and obviously endless amounts of food.

Just back him down a little. If you continue rabbits, really space them out. Maybe throw in a quail here and there on the smaller side, but keep the 20 day space. For now,,, I seriously think he's good through the end of March.

[Evenstar]

Just now found this thread. Cloud is a handsome fellow!

DooLittle has given you great advice on feeding. I also am not aware of anyone with a top-notch reputation who recommends that 10-15% rule for boas. Boas have a MUCH slower metabolism than either Ball Pythons or Retics and they do not need to eat such large prey items. Slower and less is much healthier for boas. The appropriate prey size for a boa should NOT leave any noticeable lump at all. An adult male Colombian boa constrictor can live exclusively on rats for his entire life. 1 jumbo or 2 large rats every 3-4 weeks is perfectly fine for any adult, even most females. This is what I do for my boas:

Babies (neonate to 1 year) - Start on hopper mice up to appropriate size as baby grows. One mouse every 7-10 days.
Juveniles (1-2 years) - Keep on mice up to large size then switch to similar size rat. One every 10-14 days.
Young adults (2-3 years) - One appropriately sized rat every 14-21 days.
Adults (3+ years and breeders) - One appropriately sized rat every 21 days, except breeding females are fed a bit more and gravid females are fed a bit less. Seasonal drops are also effective.

I've based my feeding schedule on the advice of Gus Rentfro (Rio Bravo), Vin Russo (Cutting Edge Herps), Donnie Smith (Prima Reptilia), and JB (Jonathan Brady - Deviant Constrictors). There is NO ONE else who gives better or more knowledgeable advice than these folks. They are the foremost authority on captive boa constrictor care and breeding. Vin Russo wrote the boa-bible - "The Complete Boa Constrictor" and introduced the first captive boas to the US (I forget exactly when - 1970's?? Gio, help me out here?? My book isn't handy at the moment....).

But it's also important to note that this is just a guide. You have to be a bit flexible with feeding and do slightly more or less often depending on your individual. I also want to begin offering quail in my boas' diets so I may feed a bit more often if I do that. I do not nor will I offer rabbits to any of my boas - including my females (with the exception perhaps of my female Argentine eventually).

The wild boa in the pic, if it is in fact wild could be a female, and it could be gravid, or recently have eaten. Wild boas can eat feverishly at certain times of the year and then go months with nothing. They cruise more than a caged boa, and have several obstacles to overcome. There are positives and negatives in the wild. The exercise is a benefit, but the captive environment offers much more safety and obviously endless amounts of food.

What Gio said here is extremely accurate. I would want to know more about this "wild" animal. What is the source of this picture? If it is, in fact, a gravid female, then she is in no way obese. And wild boas can and do eat very large prey items because they may have to go months before they can catch their next meal. Captivity means a different lifestyle for our animals. We provide for their every need. They have to live in a tiny environment compared to the wild and they get fed whenever they are hungry. In order to be healthy in captivity, it is our responsibility to adjust their feeding to make that be so. What a boa does and looks like in the wild cannot be compared to what they do and should look like in captivity.

And as Gio and DooLittle also said, no one is down on you. We are just here to help and to offer accurate and sensible advice. I understand how frustrating it can be to weed through all that conflicting information. That's why I showed you my own schedule and told you who has helped me. This is tried and true information from professionals you can trust.

[Gio]

Just now found this thread. Cloud is a handsome fellow!

DooLittle has given you great advice on feeding. I also am not aware of anyone with a top-notch reputation who recommends that 10-15% rule for boas. Boas have a MUCH slower metabolism than either Ball Pythons or Retics and they do not need to eat such large prey items. Slower and less is much healthier for boas. The appropriate prey size for a boa should NOT leave any noticeable lump at all. An adult male Colombian boa constrictor can live exclusively on rats for his entire life. 1 jumbo or 2 large rats every 3-4 weeks is perfectly fine for any adult, even most females. This is what I do for my boas:

Babies (neonate to 1 year) - Start on hopper mice up to appropriate size as baby grows. One mouse every 7-10 days.
Juveniles (1-2 years) - Keep on mice up to large size then switch to similar size rat. One every 10-14 days.
Young adults (2-3 years) - One appropriately sized rat every 14-21 days.
Adults (3+ years and breeders) - One appropriately sized rat every 21 days, except breeding females are fed a bit more and gravid females are fed a bit less. Seasonal drops are also effective.

I've based my feeding schedule on the advice of Gus Rentfro (Rio Bravo), Vin Russo (Cutting Edge Herps), Donnie Smith (Prima Reptilia), and JB (Jonathan Brady - Deviant Constrictors). There is NO ONE else who gives better or more knowledgeable advice than these folks. They are the foremost authority on captive boa constrictor care and breeding. Vin Russo wrote the boa-bible - "The Complete Boa Constrictor" and introduced the first captive boas to the US (I forget exactly when - 1970's?? Gio, help me out here?? My book isn't handy at the moment....).

But it's also important to note that this is just a guide. You have to be a bit flexible with feeding and do slightly more or less often depending on your individual. I also want to begin offering quail in my boas' diets so I may feed a bit more often if I do that. I do not nor will I offer rabbits to any of my boas - including my females (with the exception perhaps of my female Argentine eventually).


What Gio said here is extremely accurate. I would want to know more about this "wild" animal. What is the source of this picture? If it is, in fact, a gravid female, then she is in no way obese. And wild boas can and do eat very large prey items because they may have to go months before they can catch their next meal. Captivity means a different lifestyle for our animals. We provide for their every need. They have to live in a tiny environment compared to the wild and they get fed whenever they are hungry. In order to be healthy in captivity, it is our responsibility to adjust their feeding to make that be so. What a boa does and looks like in the wild cannot be compared to what they do and should look like in captivity.

And as Gio and DooLittle also said, no one is down on you. We are just here to help and to offer accurate and sensible advice. I understand how frustrating it can be to weed through all that conflicting information. That's why I showed you my own schedule and told you who has helped me. This is tried and true information from professionals you can trust.

Wow! That is perfect advice, and I like the other folks added in the feeding list. Jonathan Brady and Morti compliment the list well. Sorry Kali I don't have my Russo book close and have been using my I-phone to type which sucks so I am no help there.

I don't think that Cloud is in any danger if you pull back a bit. I also understand that some boas really do get big. I hope mine is one, but the key is to monitor the girth, and keep the fat down.

[DooLittle]

Well Ripley wasn't much interested in cooperating for pictures. But you can see the muscles in her back, and maybe get an idea for girth.



This was from last summer-


And this is my newest worm, Remi. You can kinda get an idea of baby size from these pics, and you can see how boxy he is.





And here is my male (he is actually closer to 1.5 than 2. I thought he was April, but isn't). You can see his boxy muscular shape (lol, he's giving Finn a ride :p).


Evenstar left some great advice. She is very knowledgeable! Hope this helps.

[Evenstar]

DooLittle, that pic of Ripley is perfect! Look at how muscular she is - wow!

** Gio, you are correct - Cloud is NOT in any danger. He is not that overweight. In fact, he's only, what I would say, a wee bit pudgy - which could easily be contributed to that rabbit he chowed down. He looked much better once he voided that...

The part we all want to stress is that he will be healthier in the long run if the feeding is backed off a little.

Here are a few of my adults. You can see the same sort of squarish-muscular appearance.

Guinness, male low-expression jungle


Jager, male hypo dh ghost


Peaches, female OT hypo dh ivory ghost


Mojo, male Argentine


Roslyn, female Argentine motley