Setting up a tropical tank - need help/pointers

[xFenrir]

For Christmas, my boyfriend and I wanted to make our extra aquarium into a tropical setup for his dad, since he's been asking if he could have it eventually for the same purpose. I know the basic needs for a tank, but I can't say I know past the whole "you need a pump, heater, and light, etc." minimals, as I'm a reptile person, haha.

First issue: the tank is a 40gal. breeder that originally was used for my Ball Python. We were planning to scrub it out really well with a bleach dilution, but worried that even if we hosed it out really well afterwards that using bleach might harm the fish. Is there a better way to clean it out, or will bleach be fine as long as we hose it out well?

Second issue: We know of a few fish his dad would like (Angels were a definite), but since this tank is to be a display piece we'd like it to be as nice as we could make it. Problem is, we know that some fish won't get along with others. I love the look of Discus (they've got some awesome colors), but I'm afraid that having Discus and Angels in the same tank will not go well. His dad has experience with tropicals, so I'd feel safe saying anything beginner to intermediate-level fish are no problem. Basically put, what can we put into a tank with Angels that will look impressive enough for a showpiece, but won't end up being discovered as a war scene one day?

Third issue (more like a question): He'd like to have live plants in the tank. What would y'all suggest as the best tropical-based plants, and what else would we need (besides the light) to have a live-plant tank?



Thanks so much for the help!! Any other advice is greatly appreciated.

[Pyrate81]

1. Bleach is fine, let it air out for 1-2 days. You probably won't be adding fish the same day as you clean it so it should not be a problem. You'll probably also cycle the tank for 24-48 hours as well which will help. If you really don't want to use bleach, go with something mild like Simple Green or Dawn.

2. Filtration and heat should be for at least 1 tank size larger than you have. So filtration and a heater for miniumum of a 55gal tank should suffice. As a rule of thumb "you can never have too much filtration" so if it fits, go with the equvilant for a 75gal tank but that's how I would do it.

*3. I've seen fish live together that "shouldn't be able to", particularly angels, tiger barbs, and neons. Some how they lived together. A 40br tank is a good size to house fish together given the proper "hiding" places and "territories. So you may get away with a couple angels and tetras or whatnot. I've never kept angels cause I heard they can be sensitive to things so and I always hear how people mix them with fish which normally woldn't survive around them. Can't help you with discus, but bala sharks may work out.

*4. I've heard different plants require different lighting and different fish will eat different plants. Did you follow that? ;-) So meshing the right fish with the right plants and the right lighting and possibley the right substrate are all to evaluate in your process.

5. I always suggest African Cichlids for a fish tank as they are "pretty" and almost make you want to get a saltwater tank. They are also interesting fish to watch socialize with each other. They are also a preference of mine as well.


*If no one else chimes in(I think Expensive Hobby could really help you out here), I'd look for a fish forum or a store in your area which is an actual "FISH STORE", unless you know the guy at Petco(or other pet store) who actually is a fish hobbyist who could walk you through it. Hope what I've said helps a little as I'm not as advanced as it looks like you are going. Good luck and send pics when all is set up.

[hellodeeries]

I apologize in advance for how long this will be since I have a lot of info I'm going to be throwing at you. It may seem overwhelming, but hopefully it helps a bit.

Bleach is fine - it will evaporate out as long as you let it dry for a day or so, especially if diluted. If you are really worried about it, use vinegar instead and rinse it out really well.

Considering it is a 40g, you'll be cycling it for a couple weeks anyways, so it isn't an issue. You can speed the cycle up a bit if you are using filter media that has been used in a cycled tank (even if you can just get a cartridge that works with your filter that can help tremendously in speeding up cycling). Having live plants and adding food flakes to kick-start the cycle also help with new filter media and some people buy fish like guppies to help cycle faster and either give them back to the store or they get fish that eat them/they die during cycling. Personally, I've just added live plants and let them grow in while the tank gets cycled and I've been fine. A water testing kit that does ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates will be really helpful as you need to know these parameters to know when your tank is cycled and also if you come into health issues, knowing these things can help diagnose the causes. pH tests are generally also in the larger set that has these, but I hardly use mine. It is one of those that depending on where you live your water may just have a higher or lower pH and instead of getting chemicals to try and get it down in a "regular" zone it is just better to let it be. The other three are waaay more important and telling.

For filtration, aqadvisor.com is the best thing to use. You plug in your tank type and the filters you have and the fish you are planning for it and it will tell you if your filter has the capacity for those fish/the size of your tank/if you are overstocking your tank. It'll also tell you for some if you should get a larger school of certain fish, but you still need to research the fish. For a 40g you may also look into two filter media systems. Undergravel and an off the side can be great, or if you have the money and are really committed you can look into canister filters. SunSun is a pretty good brand as is Hagen for canisters. I'd avoid Fluval - I have a Fluval Chi 5g tank with a 50w Fluval heater and both are fine (the 300w Fluval heater is terrible, though, so avoid that), but I have gone through two Fluval filters of different sizes and they did not impress. Some people swear by them, but I find their stuff overall hyped up and overpriced for the lackluster quality. Also, when looking at filters, look up how much it takes to maintain them. One of the draws of canister filters is that once you pay for it, you don't pay too much for it after - you clean the media, but don't have to change it too often. With filters that need cartridges you may be paying a lot just for your cartridge replacements. I know Aqueon has a filter that is sometimes priced really well, and I do own one, but the cartridges are crazy expensive. The good news is that unless you have a disease in the tank, you don't have to constantly replace the media - rinse it out every few weeks for sure, but you don't have to replace it every month unless it is clearly needing replacement (like, holes in it or it has mold or the like).

For heaters you will be looking at submersible glass heaters and likely 200w or 300w. Amazon stocks a brand called AquaVia that has good heaters for the price. They are also adjustable which for their price is pretty great seeing as for something similar at Petco or Petsmart you are looking at dropping $30. I think I've gotten all my AquaVia heaters for under $20, most closer to $15, and have had no troubles with them from the 50w to the 300w. For heaters, you can always go larger on the wattage. You may see someone saying you can't have a 300w in a 10g or something. Totally wrong. It is by no means necessary, but the wattage doesn't mean it is hotter - it just means it will heat faster because it can be in larger tanks. The thing you need to be careful with is that you aren't putting fish that were in a colder bag in a warmer tank - very delicate fish can die from the shock, so should be acclimated by floating their bags until the bag temp is the same as the tank temp and then start adding some of the tank water to the bag they are in before finally adding the fish into the tank. For a 40g, you would probably be fine with just one 200w heater, though you could have two 150w on either side. Also, even though some of the heaters have built in thermometers, get a glass one to have in the tank. You don't want to rely on the built in one since they may be a couple degrees off or it could break or something. Also, you want the glass ones and not the little sticker ones for accuracy.

Angels aren't really that tricky in terms of tank mates once you get that angels are in a group of semi-aggressive fish that are basically all the same in terms of what can be with them. Anything they can fit in their mouth, they will try to eat. So neons can work, but you may see some get eaten, or they may be quick enough that they can evade them. They generally won't go out of their way to attack them (provided they are well fed), but if they get in their path and can fit in their mouth, snacks for them. Larger tetras can work fine, just make sure they are in a large enough school so they feel safe, otherwise they may nip at the angels long fins. Serape Tetra are notorious nippers even in larger schools, so I'd avoid them. Ones that I think are really pretty (and I may be biased because I have a school of them) are Congo Tetra. The males get about 4" and the females about 2.5". I know they work with angels and they also are good with smaller tetras like neons (I have a school of neons in with them and they've all thrived). Pretty much research and ask fish stores (not Petco or Petsmart - they rarely have someone who really knows their fish that isn't trying to push you into buying more fish; try to find a fish shop that has reputable fish keepers). Really, for tank mates for angels, looking into what you can get in your area is something you'll want to do first, and then from there look into what you can keep with them. I don't want to suggest too many other things since some places you just won't find them. Tetras are a pretty safe bet anywhere, though certain types will be harder. You should find neons anywhere, though congos you may have to do a bit more searching, though I think are fairly common in aquatics stores - Petsmart and Petco may not carry them, though, but their fish don't always seem that healthy.

Now, some things that matter more than tank mates are the angels themselves. You either want a pair (male and female) and run the risk of getting loads of little angels, a single angel (female is better since they aren't as aggressive), or a group of five or more. You can also try and get mostly females - that will help with the aggression in the tank (as is the case for most semi-aggressive fish). When you have a pair they generally won't attack each other (if you aren't getting them together and they don't know each other), but if they start mating they will become aggressive to others to protect their eggs. You also don't want two males because they will fight each other. Three is better, but still risky. Four you may get away with, but most people prefer five and up. I don't know about getting only females and having three or so - I could see that being difficult as they can sometimes be hard to sex. Also, make sure not to get a type that will end up huge. Research what they really will get to in size - I know for a fact petsmart and petco can have inaccurate size estimates that will royally screw you since they don't always know what they are doing.

Live plants are really nice aesthetically and for your aquarium health. They help the cycles a bit and add nice coverage for your shyer fish. Most importantly they don't have sharp edges that can damage your fishes fins like plastic plants do. If you have to get any fake plants, go for silk ones or use a pair of pantyhose to test the edges of the plastic plants (and any decorations) - if the pantyhose catch or rip, the items will rip your fishes fins. For angels, this is really important to avoid, since even if you don't get veils they have fairly long fins. The rips can also lead to fin rot and other bad things especially if your tank parameters aren't up to par.

As for types of live plants, my favourites are Anubias, Pennywort, Java Fern, Java Moss, and Amazon Swords. Of those, the most robust in my experience are Java Ferns and Anubias'. Pennywort and Java Moss need a good deal of light. Amazon swords can do alright with lower light levels, and I have friends who have them in really low levels, but I've always needed to have them in my brighter tanks for them to do well. The best deal I've found for Java Fern anywhere is on Amazon through Substrate Source. They sell a full mat for like $20 or something - my favourite local shop for most of my plants sells the same thing for $40. I still love the shop and get my Anubias and Java Moss through them, but I'll always get my Java Ferns from Substrate Source. I also got my Pennywort and Dwarf Pennywort through them. I don't recommend Dwarf Pennywort unless you get amazing lighting or you have a really shallow tank. The only ones I'll put it in are my shallow 5g tanks, otherwise the tanks are too deep for the light to be enough for them. Baby Tears are much the same, as are most low-growing plants. The exception is Java Moss (and most other mosses - you can get Christmas, Flame, all kinds - I just have experience with Java, but most have the same care requirements). Java Moss you can find on floating balls at Petco or you may be able to find a local shop that sells it cheap. Substrate Source has it, but for the amount it is kind of pricey. But, it is also very versatile. You can tie it to decorations, you can put it on the bottom and let it spread there, you can put it anywhere. Shrimp also love it, which you may be able to add to your tank, depending on if your other fish ignore them or eat them.

Ghost shrimp are great to test as they are cheap, are already sold to be feeders so it isn't really a loss, and if they survive they are fairly good at hiding since their bodies are clear (and they eat algae, which is helpful). Also, unless there is a fish killing them off, if you see a bunch of them dead (their bodies when alive are clear, but when they die they get white/pink and really visible), it can be indicative to a problem with your tank parameters as they tend to die faster than fish when something is messing with the parameters.

One thing to watch out for if you go to Petco or Petsmart is the plants they label as Aquatic plants may not actually be aquatic. They put their semi-aquatic and terrarium plants in the same area, but will still call the aquatic plants and say they can do fine in full water. Not the case - they will die and seeing as live plants can be pricey, this can be really aggravating. If you have a smartphone, you can look it up on the spot to make sure it is an actual aquatic plant and if so what the lighting needs are for it. If you can't look it up on the spot, just write down the plants and research them as the sales associates generally don't know much more than what the labels say. Also look at the health of the plants they sell. They generally have some that are dying cheaper, which if you know your aquatic plants well and how to care for them, you could save some money by nursing them back to health. But some are even beyond that. But they will try and sell at full price plants that are about to be reduced, so for beginning aquatic plants look for healthy greens and no dead leaves or yellowing. They also sell Morimo Moss balls which can look nice in tanks. If they are grey or black, they are dead. Otherwise, if it is falling apart and at half price, but still green, you can get it and just roll the pieces into balls and have multiple little morimo balls. Some things about morimo - they are not actually moss. They are an algae, but they don't tend to spread and be annoying like the brown and green algae you may get on the sides of your tank. But they can eat actual moss, so keep it away from real aquatic moss. It can be in the same tank even, you just don't want it right next to each other. Really, though, it is more of a fad plant - people are keeping them with bettas and calling the marimo a pet and giving them names. It can still be a nice decoration, though.

For lighting, LED is ideal. But LED is also expensive in most cases. Fluorescent is the next best thing, but even that can be expensive. Honestly, I use Fluorescents from Home Depot and they work just as well for my plants as the pet brand ones, but they cost 1/5th the price. Get the 'Daylight' ones - warm tones give your tank a yellow tone which isn't really attractive. Daylight is the closest to LED colouring. Incandescent should be avoided. They don't last well and do nothing for plants after a couple weeks (even if they still turn on and seem to work), plus they aren't as energy efficient as Fluorescents or LEDs. If you go for LEDs, it is best not to get a hood - get a glass canopy and then have the LEDs above that. You can also do this for Fluorescents - keep them in their lighting case, but have that over the half of the canopy that doesn't open much as you would have it with the hoods designed for the tube Fluorescents. They hoods with the screw in bulbs are the ones where you encounter incandescent lighting that sometimes comes with the hoods already. They have four packs of the Fluorescent lights that work in those in Daylight for $5 at Home Depot. You can even find LED in a screwed variety, but I haven't used them personally.

The live plants needs really revolve around lighting more than anything else. You may need to add nitrates for them if you are seeing holes in the leaves that aren't from fish (I've yet to have any fish that try to eat the plants, so that likely won't be why you get holes). Beyond that, live plants are fairly low maintenance. You may have to trim back moss every now and then, or you can split the moss as it grows and tie it to other areas. But beyond that, they're probably going to be the easiest part of the tank.

I know this all can be daunting, but aquariums take a bit of learning to properly maintain. I'm trying to cover all the bases because I know that places like Petco and Petsmart can spread a lot of misinformation and because they are supposed to be for pet care people take their word as law and go into aquatics and then kill a bunch of fish from terrible information. For instance, they sell bettas in cups and tell people they can do fine in tiny little jars and vases with rare water changes, no water filter, no heater, and a peace lily that blocks their access to the surface. Bettas need minimum 2.5g, 5g preferable, that is fully filtered, heated, and access to the surface because they get oxygen from the air (they have a labyrinth organ for it on top of oxygen that their body converts from the water). Goldfish they'll sell you with a glass bowl - goldfish are some of the most waste producing fish and need heavy, insane filtering. Like, if you want goldfish that live past a month, you need heavy duty filter systems. But Petco and Petsmart would love it for your fish to be sick since you then buy $10-20 meds and if it dies, well, guess you'll be buying another only for it to get sick and for you to keep buying. They make most of their money off you getting the tank and the system as well as the medicines, so please don't take their fish advice at face value because most of their sales associates don't know much beyond what they've learned from their crap brochures.