Scale-less BP photo!

[kat_black181]

Come to think of it, How many times do breeders get dead eggs, or snakes that die off relatively quickly after hatching that aren't scaleless?? How come that okay, but the second it scaleless we throw our hands in the air?

I have to definitely agree with this point. The kinks and eye issues among others are prime examples of it.

[angllady2]

My word. What a bunch of foul tempered brats we have here!

By your logic, spider ball pythons should have been eliminated as soon as it was learned they wobbled. No self respecting breeder would own or breed anything with spider in it because of the glaring defect they have. And it carries through the genes no matter how many others may be present or how much it is outcrossed. I don't see anybody vilifying the thousands of people who own and breed spiders knowing they are defective. So why slam the people who bred this? It's the same difference. Spiders are not normal, and everyone knows they aren't normal, but I don't see them being removed from the hobby because of it. Some people accept it, some do not.

And how do you know these animals won't be able to live normally and comfortably? Just because of the way they look? By that logic, spiders shouldn't be able to live normally either. There are of course a few exceptions, animals whose defect is so severe it prevents them from being able to hunt or even swallow prey. But by and large, even those who show the defect severely can still function normally enough to eat, shed, poop and breed. So why automatically assume these can't? Unless it becomes obvious they cannot eat or shed or poop on their own, why condemn them and the people who bred them?

I am quite sure if it becomes obvious they cannot survive normally, they will quietly fade away like the Pearl did. But until then, get a grip on your high and mighty selves. Personally, I think they will do just fine and given enough time, we will eventually see more of them being bred by other breeders. I wouldn't mind having one myself. Not that I could afford it, but I think they look delightfully strange and I'd be happy to have one in my collection.

Gale

[trevo]

I don't see anybody vilifying the thousands of people who own and breed spiders knowing they are defective. So why slam the people who bred this? It's the same difference.

Absolutely agree with this. Its simply a distinction without a difference.

[bad-one]

Honestly as long as these snakes thrive I can't wait to get one! Very unique animal

[Soterios]

Beautiful animal. Congratulations to Brian!

[Expensive hobby]

Then sell your snakes off and join Peta. This whole hobby is new genes, new mutations (that's what they are, defects), and new combos. If that's against your constitution, the you ought to just pull out of them right?

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And how did you come to this absolutely nonsensical association of what I said and a radical group of animal rights activists?

Why should I sell all my snakes and join PETA just because I don't agree with developing snakes that lack their natural anatomy?

And for your information, I own one wild type ball python, 6 naturally occurring BCI boas, a Dominican Red Mountain Boa(also 100% naturally occurring) and a yellow anaconda. None of which are designer morphs or anatomically missing specimens.

Your statement made no sense, and sets the tone for how seriously I may take you in future debates. If you want to debate like an adult, I'll be right here, if not I'm sure the mods can create a kiddie lounge for you.


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[Kodieh]

And how did you come to this absolutely nonsensical association of what I said and a radical group of animal rights activists?

Why should I sell all my snakes and join PETA just because I don't agree with developing snakes that lack their natural anatomy?

And for your information, I own one wild type ball python, 6 naturally occurring BCI boas, a Dominican Red Mountain Boa(also 100% naturally occurring) and a yellow anaconda. None of which are designer morphs or anatomically missing specimens.

Your statement made no sense, and sets the tone for how seriously I may take you in future debates. If you want to debate like an adult, I'll be right here, if not I'm sure the mods can create a kiddie lounge for you.


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So is this the new divisional line in our hobby? Anatomically correct and natural occurring purist and designer freakshow lovers?

My statement is fairly valid. You're being quite the unreasonable juvenile about a physical defect you do not have any mandate to own. You are completely unaffected by it because there will be people (foolish) like you that will not work with this gene at all. It has absolutely NO effect on you. Quite literally.

Get over yourself, you're making this into something it is not. It literally does not affect you so long as you make it so.

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[zeion97]

Here is a different and larger pic that is now out. You can see the egg tooth if you save it and view it full size.

BHB says the animal has heat sensors, just no pits. He is also bringing at least one to NARBC Tinley Park next week for in-person viewing. Anxious to see it there!

I have been apathetic about the scaleless corns, and not a fan of scaleless beardeds, but I do like this iteration. Def lots of interesting visual possibilities!

Just another reason to enjoy Tinley!!! Can't wait!


Also, instead of sitting here arguing how about we just WAIT? I mean seriously everyone is jumping on there own trains complaining when in reality we have NO IDEA what, if any problems the scaleless Royal will have.. It's like watching a trailer on a new video game and than complaining that you didn't like it when you played it........ (Meaning you NEVER played it)

In the end people will always disagree, we will NEVER all agree on a single topic besides that fact we LOVE reptiles, people will argue desserts are useless because of the female problems.. That spiders shouldn't be bred because they wobble, there will Lways be a argument with stuff like this... But right now we should just but our own opinions aside and WAIT to see if anything develops, than we can all go back to arguing.

[Expensive hobby]

So is this the new divisional line in our hobby? Anatomically correct and natural occurring purist and designer freakshow lovers?

My statement is fairly valid. You're being quite the unreasonable juvenile about a physical defect you do not have any mandate to own. You are completely unaffected by it because there will be people (foolish) like you that will not work with this gene at all. It has absolutely NO effect on you. Quite literally.

Get over yourself, you're making this into something it is not. It literally does not affect you so long as you make it so.

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So wait, I'm foolish because I choose not to own a scaleless gene ball python? Well thank you sir! Your elitist attitude has opened my eyes to my ignorance and now I know! I can see clearly now!

And please don't put words in my mouth because this is all in writing, and it makes you look like you are digging to find reasons to insult me.

And maybe, just maybe grab a dictionary, because certain points of your post don't grammatically make sense in context; a physical defect I have no mandate to own? Come again? Did I ever claim ownership of this defect? No, I did not. I was merely stating my opinion on the matter.

And since when did having an opinion about a topic mean I need to get over myself? In case you haven't noticed, I'M not making this into something it's not. There are two majority sides on this topic; people who like it and people who don't. I haven't made it anything.


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[Inarikins]

You miss the point where ALL morphs are "naturally occurring". They weren't dreamed up somewhere, or made in a test tube, they were pulled out of the wild (ie, nature). I can't really think of a single morph that didn't come out of, at some point, an animal either pulled from the wild or found to have a genetic trait while otherwise appearing normal, or "wild type". The Scaleless Head was pulled out of the wild (either captive hatched from a wild mom or caught as an adult, I don't know but it doesn't really matter), and, just going off of the fact that reptiles never move far from where they were hatched, a naturally scaleless BP could have occurred. If that snake had been pulled out of a burrow and shipped over, would you still be having this argument? Because, by your reasoning, it's a "naturally occurring" animal, and is therefore not some freakish creation dreamed up by one of the guys who is most passionate about his animals in the entire business.

Edited to add that I'm super excited about the Scaleless Ball and am super interested to see if the little ones survive and thrive and I hope they do. They're amazing little creatures and I hope Brian all the best going through with the project.