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  1. #171
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    Re: How long can you keep a ball python in this setup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Alan View Post
    Keep them happy? They can live their entire lives in a T8 if that's what you're wodering.
    That looks to be a third again as big so I guess I'll have to upgrade at some point. The ease of cleaning a 20 gallon is a big selling point.

    Thanks.

  2. #172
    BPnet Lifer Eric Alan's Avatar
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    Re: How long can you keep a ball python in this setup?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahAndAaron View Post
    That looks to be a third again as big so I guess I'll have to upgrade at some point. The ease of cleaning a 20 gallon is a big selling point.

    Thanks.
    Going to have to put on my sheepish face here. I thought this was the T8 setup thread, no the 20L one. My bad!

    An average size male BP would be fine in a 20L for his entire lifetime - the footprint of a 20L is very similar to the most common sized tubs used in the business for grow-ups and males. An adult female, however, would likely need an upgrade as she reaches her full potential.

    Last edited by Eric Alan; 11-27-2016 at 04:51 PM.
    Find me on Facebook: E.B. Ball Pythons and Instagram: @EBBallPythons

  3. #173
    Registered User Macropodus's Avatar
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    Re: How long can you keep a ball python in this setup?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahAndAaron View Post
    ... The ease of cleaning a 20 gallon is a big selling point. Thanks.
    I agree. From time to time I read threads re pros/cons of x rack vs y tub. Seems some types of plastic clean better than others, but nothing IME cleans like glass. For all the other disadvantages of glass tanks - cost, bulk, heat/humidity maintenance, etc, it sure is easy & fast to completely eliminate even the soupiest waste.

  4. #174
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    Re: How long can you keep a ball python in this setup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Alan View Post
    Going to have to put on my sheepish face here. I thought this was the T8 setup thread, no the 20L one. My bad!

    An average size male BP would be fine in a 20L for his entire lifetime - the footprint of a 20L is very similar to the most common sized tubs used in the business for grow-ups and males. An adult female, however, would likely need an upgrade as she reaches her full potential.

    Lol gotcha. That's a relief. The thought of getting at T8 up the stairs to the bathroom for a cleaning is pretty daunting with my nerve pain. A 20L is doable for my Firefly male.

    Thanks!

  5. #175
    Registered User Serpensortia's Avatar
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    Re: How to Setup a Glass Tank (20 long) With Pictures!

    Thanks for this post! It helped tremendously. I have a few questions on some stuff I already purchased. I have the ZooMed UTH so it doesn't have a slot for the temperature probe (I got the Hydrofarm Tstat). Should I place it in the tank on the bottom?

    ZooMed supplied little rubber feet (along with the UTH) to attach to the bottom of the tank to lift it, but I have it on a wooden surface and I'm afraid that won't be enough airspace. I don't have racks since I only have the one snake. Is it a fire hazard in general and/or with this setup to use a UTH? Fire hazards are my worst fear and almost kept me from getting a BP but she was so darn cute I couldn't help it

    Thanks!

  6. #176
    Registered User Slither Seeker's Avatar
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    I've got our new BP in a 20 long and I'm having a hell of a time controlling the humidity with a heat lamp so I am setting up a separate 20 gallon on it's side, insulated and with thick plexiglass attached to the front (what was the top) with a sliding door and a double lock. I wish I'd seen this thread sooner, I did not place the probe between the glass and the UTH, but I have also gone in a bit of a different direction using a low powered UTH and getting a piece of glass cut to the size of the heater, placing the whole thing inside the tank as a did on my BRB Vivarium two years ago. I have no easy way to attach the probe on top of the glass nor between the glass and heater since it would require tape and I know it's a no no to put tape inside the tank. I also realize it's unconventional to put the UTH inside the tank. I spoke with Zoo Med about this a few years ago and they cautioned against heat encapsulation, which can cause burns/fires. they did mention that their smallest UTH is the least likely to cause issues inside the tank. for my BRB, i heavily insulated the enclosure and put an LED grow light and the UTH inside on a thick piece of glass to dissipate the heat and it was plenty to heat the whole enclosure, so that's the direction I'm going with this one. In this case, I'm getting it all dialed in before moving the BP from the tank with the heat lamp. heat lamps just seem so energy consumptive and drying and generally not a good match for a BP. looking forward to be done with the tedious phase.
    Last edited by Slither Seeker; 01-20-2017 at 04:30 PM.

  7. #177
    Sometimes It Hurts... PitOnTheProwl's Avatar
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    Re: How to Setup a Glass Tank (20 long) With Pictures!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slither Seeker View Post
    a low powered UTH and getting a piece of glass cut to the size of the heater, placing the whole thing inside the tank as a did on my BRB Vivarium two years ago.
    I would like to inform you that this is a bad idea. You don't want your thermostat probe inside the enclosure AND I would not put the heat source inside either. Not to mention using a heat source that is too small. Urine and water bowl overflows will tamper with your settings and they can cause your temperature to get too hot. Aluminum Foil (true duct tape) tape can be used outside the enclosure and is safe to your on heat sources.
    Last edited by PitOnTheProwl; 01-20-2017 at 04:51 PM.

  8. #178
    Registered User Slither Seeker's Avatar
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    Re: How to Setup a Glass Tank (20 long) With Pictures!

    Quote Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl View Post
    I would like to inform you that this is a bad idea. You don't want your thermostat probe inside the enclosure AND I would not put the heat source inside either. Not to mention using a heat source that is too small. Urine and water bowl overflows will tamper with your settings and they can cause your temperature to get too hot. Aluminum Foil (true duct tape) tape can be used outside the enclosure and is safe to your on heat sources.
    thanks for the input, to place it all on the outside I'll need to redesign the bottom... currently the entire tank accept the front is covered in thermax with foil taped seams.

  9. #179
    Registered User Slither Seeker's Avatar
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    Re: How to Setup a Glass Tank (20 long) With Pictures!

    I called Zoo Med to see if they had any input on the placement of a probe between the glass and the UTH. I'm not putting this out there to say anyone is wrong, I realize there are many ways of doing things and that everyone has to make a judgement based on their unique circumstances and sense of appropriateness vs what the manufacturer recommends but I did think it would be worth sharing what I was told just for perspective. the person I was passed on to through zoo meds customer service phone tree seemed relatively technically savvy. they stated that the UTH is engineered to be fully and evenly adhered to the glass, so that the glass can distribute the heat without excessive heat build up anywhere on the UTH. they mentioned that when the UTH traps a large air bubble under it, that heat encapsulation can occur, changing the heat distribution from what the materials were designed for. they said that eventually, this can lead to a runaway thermal situation and be a fire hazard. in terms of placing the probe between the glass and the UTH, they said that the probe is not designed to handle that much direct heat and that they have seen this lead to a melted probe. they didn't recommend having it even within direct contact of the glass above the heater, inside the tank. I figure that to the extent to which I am going to go outside the manufacturers recommendations, that I would at least like to know what problems to look out for.

    from a previous conversation with them two years ago, with respect to mounting the heater on a piece of glass and placing the entire heater inside the enclosure they said that they could not recommend that but that if I was going to do it, that the lowest wattage heater was the least likely to cause thermal runaway issues. in my current 20 gallon, I went with two of the smallest heaters, side by side on a 1/4 inch piece of glass that I had cut and edges ground. the tank is heavily insulated, the thermostat probe is placed on top of the substrate showing a temp of about 88-90 f. the cool end of the tank is at about 78. our two BP's go from one hide to the other as needed and are eating and shedding well. the enclosed system is holding a constant humidity of 50-60% pretty well with some holes for ventilation and occasional misting. The person I talked with on the phone two days ago said that the only documented cases of snakes getting burned from UTH's that they knew of were cases where the rest of the tank was much too cold and that the snake couldn't regulate it's temperature properly, huddling too close to the UTH heater out of desperation. Again, I'm not saying this is the end all be all only correct information, or even that it is correct information, I'm just passing on what I've been told from one source.

  10. #180
    Sometimes It Hurts... PitOnTheProwl's Avatar
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    Re: How to Setup a Glass Tank (20 long) With Pictures!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slither Seeker View Post
    in terms of placing the probe between the glass and the UTH, they said that the probe is not designed to handle that much direct heat and that they have seen this lead to a melted probe. they didn't recommend having it even within direct contact of the glass above the heater, inside the tank..
    This single statement tells me that the person you were speaking with really doesn't know or understand the purpose of a thermostat to regulate a heat source.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slither Seeker View Post
    the thermostat probe is placed on top of the substrate showing a temp of about 88-90 f..
    You do know that your snake can burrow and I can guarantee that the glass under the substrate is above safe temperatures.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slither Seeker View Post
    The person I talked with on the phone two days ago said that the only documented cases of snakes getting burned from UTH's that they knew of were cases where the rest of the tank was much too cold and that the snake couldn't regulate it's temperature properly, huddling too close to the UTH heater out of desperation.
    This right here makes me never want to buy or recommend another Zoomed product of any kind. You would think that they would know and understand a little something about reptiles considering it is their main business.......... I cannot believe they would have someone this stupid representing their product.

    SMH........

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PitOnTheProwl For This Useful Post:

    cletus (01-24-2017),GoingPostal (01-24-2017),jmcrook (01-24-2017)

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