All Members: Please Read

[Jeanne]

I have noticed a trend going on in our community, I am not going to name names, but I am going to say, those of you who are involved know who you are, and those who are not know who is who. Lately, I have noticed on several occassions, that there are a few of our members who share things going on in thier lives with us.. I am going to say this-- we may not always agree with what someone decides or does with thier $, but we have no right to judge. We have no right, none of us. There are times in all of our lives we must exercise the advice many of us have heard from our parents or grand parents, -- that is : if you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all. I know we like to help eachother out, but there comes a point when we must all realize that the things we say or how we say it are only the beginning of flaming or are bear baiting if thats what you want to call it. We are here to be CONSTRUCTIVE.. being anything else otherwise, is not right and not fair to others and we might as well just keep our mouths shut. I am not trying to be harsh, but I am being direct about the problem I see going on lately. Bottom line, it needs to stop. Please.

[Marla]

Hear, hear. As my friend Carrie is wont to say, preach it sista!

[Eddie_Z]

I understand that this is probably partially directed at me & that is fine. I am not normally one to judge or to say anything about what people do with their time & money. However, I just feel like at this point we are dealing with the well being of the herps. We have got to be really careful about how we handle herps because there is a large number of people & organizations out there that want to take the right to own herps & other exotics away from us. If people continue to act irresponsibly with their herps, it is only going to fuel that fire. I don't dislike Don, I just feel like he is being irresponsible with his selections & I expressed that opinion. I am not trying to flame anyone or cause a problem, I am just expressing my opinion for what I feel is the good of the herps & the herp community.

That being said, if it is truly causing a problem, I will not speak out on these matters any longer. I will keep to threads that do not stir up any controversy. I did not mean to make anyone feel like I was personally attacking. I am just trying to make a point. Thank you for speaking your piece Jeanne! :wink:

[jotay]

Jeanne,
Thanks for making this post. I have been a memeber since Dec and I love this forum and the people, for the most part everyone is great.
Seems that there are a few who just seem to pick on certain people for whatever the reason, but hey that is the nature of some.
I guess I really just want say even tho that is the case sometimes, this is still the best site I have ever been on in terms of people being friendly and ready to help you even tho sometimes ( me ) ask some really off the wall questions.
Thanks again for putting that vibe back out

[Smynx]

Jeanne is right. "Constructive" is the key word here. You can go to any number of sites and bash someone or watch someone get bashed, but that's not what we're about here. That's what sets us apart - civility.

Eddie, I understand your concern about the herps and our rights to keep them, but we also have to realize that we're dealing with real people here too. We can disagree with someone without being insulting or crappy about it. Lively, civil debate can be useful, but we need to consider other people's feelings and the way what we say will be perceived by other people, especially new people, on this website. I'm not saying we should always agree or be "Pollyanna-ish" (to use someone else's term :wink: ) about things; I'm just saying there's a right and a wrong way to disagree with people and to express our opinions.

[Marla]

I think Smynx hit the nail on the head: it's more about how we do things here than it is what you do. In other words, if a member is doing something the more experienced keepers know is a danger to an animal's welfare (say, keeping a ball python in an outdoor screen cage in Minnesota), we can ignore it, attack it, or attempt to correct it. Some of us choose each of those options currently, but the more of us who choose 'attack it,' the less friendly this forum becomes and the less likely new members or guests will feel free to ask their questions and risk being thought a fool.

I realize the particular case here isn't a newbie who's had no opportunity to learn to do it right, but is calling the actions/member in question "retarded" and similar going to fix the problem from the herps' point of view? (And for what it's worth, if an actual developmentally delayed teen or adult were trained in herp care, chances are s/he would be very conscientious about following the instructions given for each and every task and do at least as good a job of it as many of the rest of us.)

I guess the point comes down to this: it benefits us as a community to stay civil, and it benefits more herps in the long run because of new guests and members who are unafraid to ask questions.

[JLC]

I guess the point comes down to this: it benefits us as a community to stay civil, and it benefits more herps in the long run because of new guests and members who are unafraid to ask questions.

This is so true. It really troubles me when people use the excuse of "the best interest of the herps" to justify their choice to attack someone. We all know that insulting someone who is set in his ways it NOT going to change their ways...so how does that help the animals? All it does is leave a very bad impression to all the new people who come looking at our forum as a place to finally get their questions answered without being afraid of drawing flames.

It's OK to disagree. It's ok to say "You know, I really think it's a bad idea to get those snakes" or "that lizard" or whatever. But to call names and roll your eyes and in every other sense deride someone (ANYone) on this forum serves no purpose but to boost your own ego.

[Wizill]

It's OK to disagree. It's ok to say "You know, I really think it's a bad idea to get those snakes" or "that lizard" or whatever. But to call names and roll your eyes and in every other sense deride someone (ANYone) on this forum serves no purpose but to boost your own ego.

even if the person you think is making a mistake has made them over and over again... i mean okay, there is a huge difference between a kid getting his first bp and somebody buying dangerously huge animals. I consider myself an experienced snake keeper, with about 15 years under the belt. and I wouldn't dare consider a burmese python, i know what they are capable of. so with that being said, anyone that I think is not fit to handle a certain species that they own or plan to own, they will know it.

i do however agree that we could be a little nicer about it all. but jeanne, and marla... i know you both see the other trend going on... which is people making incredibly bad decisions and it's becoming a pain to even have to read about them. so think about us little short-tempered people... it could be a LOT worse.

[Eddie_Z]

I understand what you are all saying &, I do agree in general. It just seemed that in the case we were currently dealing with (before the post was moved/deleted) we were dealing with some one who did not respond, or completely ignored, people trying to be civil & give him advice in the "right" way. I was just hoping that maybe being a little harsher might actually get through to him. I did not feel as though I was flaming him in the post. It was straight forward, direct, not sugar coated but I wasn't name calling or bashing on him. At least I didn't think that I was.

Like I said before though, I want to stay in the good graces of this forum. You have all been such a great help to me. I am more than certain that if it wasn't for BP.net, I would not be able to keep Hissy as happy as I know that she is. I feel very connected to a lot of you people for our common love of herps. So, from now on, when I see a post by Don, I will just run, not walk, the other way & leave it alone. I will leave the advice up to those who are able to provide it with a feeling less like sandpaper! :lol:

[Marla]

i do however agree that we could be a little nicer about it all. but jeanne, and marla... i know you both see the other trend going on... which is people making incredibly bad decisions and it's becoming a pain to even have to read about them. so think about us little short-tempered people... it could be a LOT worse.

I agree the thread could have (and probably would have, elsewhere) gotten a lot worse than it did, very quickly. In general the folks here are patient and civil, and a great group overall. I'm not trying to attack you or any other member and I agree the trend is disturbing. I am just more concerned about preserving the community here than about the mistakes one individual makes in herp keeping, no matter how frustrating those may be. I hope you can understand and appreciate the intentions behind my posts related to this, and I think behind Jeanne's posts and actions as well.