Snake needs help

[Inknsteel]

Besides saying its garbage do you have anything to back up this claim, facts maybe? Here is the product description from the website, is there anything on the description that your saying is inaccurate?

Kills mites on contact! This Product does not use poisons or other toxins to achieve results, so mites do not become resistant, Thus, the product never loses effectiveness.
EPA registered
Highly effective on fleas, ticks, lice & mites
Unconditionally guaranteed
Contains no pyrethrins or similar chemicals
EPA approved label requires NO HAZARD WARNINGS!
Lowest possible toxicity ratings in all EPA categories
pH adjusted to minimize irritation
Reptile Relief can be applied directly on pet, with no need to remove water or feed dispensers from habitat!
The Science of Reptile Relief-
The active ingredients in De Flea products work together to soften the waxy exoskeleton of fleas, ticks, lice, mites and other insects. Once the insect's armor has been penetrated, its internal organs are saturated and the insect quickly bursts. De Flea products work for all stages of an insect's life cycle: eggs, larvae, pupae and adult - effectively eliminating all mites and eggs from the cage on contact.


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Have you ever used Reptile Relief or are you just regurgitating what the website or bottle claims to do? I have personal experience in using Reptile Relief when I brought home my first snake in 2007. She came from Petco with a complimentary mite infestation. I used Reptile Relief for two months and never was able to get rid of them. I ordered a can of Provent-a-Mite and they were gone after a single treatment.

I was also curious if the OP heard mineral water, then soaked the snake in mineral oil. As for mite treatment, do as Kaorte said, a soak in water with a drop or two of dish soap while you're waiting for a can of Provent-a-Mite to be shipped.

[martin82531]

It is my understanding that reptile relief is for use on the snake, to kill mites that may be bothering the animal. Soaking in plain old water will accomplish the same thing with ZERO chemicals on the snake.

Since reptile relief is only used on the snake (not on the enclosure like PAM) it does NOT address the entire life cycle of the mite. Mites migrate off the snake to lay their eggs. The eggs are quite resilient, even to products like PAM. You spray PAM on your substrate and it will continue to be active for up to 30 days. So, this product doesn't kill the eggs, but it sticks around until the eggs hatch, killing the mites right then and there and stopping the cycle.

According to the product description it does kill eggs -
"De Flea products work for all stages of an insect's life cycle: eggs, larvae, pupae and adult - effectively eliminating all mites and eggs from the cage on contact."


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[Kaorte]

According to the product description it does kill eggs -
"De Flea products work for all stages of an insect's life cycle: eggs, larvae, pupae and adult - effectively eliminating all mites and eggs from the cage on contact."


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If you would prefer to believe the label of the product over the personal experience of members of this site, so be it. I cannot say whether or not what they state on the package is true because I have not use that product.

I have used PAM in the past and it has worked flawlessly and I never needed to put any chemicals on my animals.

[martin82531]

Have you ever used Reptile Relief or are you just regurgitating what the website or bottle claims to do? I have personal experience in using Reptile Relief when I brought home my first snake in 2007. She came from Petco with a complimentary mite infestation. I used Reptile Relief for two months and never was able to get rid of them. I ordered a can of Provent-a-Mite and they were gone after a single treatment.

I was also curious if the OP heard mineral water, then soaked the snake in mineral oil. As for mite treatment, do as Kaorte said, a soak in water with a drop or two of dish soap while you're waiting for a can of Provent-a-Mite to be shipped.

No I have not used Reptile Relief or PAM for that mater, does this mean I'm not allowed to make recommendation? I think instead of saying something is garbage you should back up that claim with some type of facts or experience, like you did for example.

I have done research on both PAM and Reptile Relief for the purpose of being ready for mites if I ever have to deal with them, lucky for me I have not had to worry about such an issue.

The reason I recommended Reptile Relief is because the instructions and use of the product doesn't seem to be as stringent as PAM. Kitedemon provided the below link that shows how stringent and careful PAM needs to be used. For me Reptile Relief seems to be a simpler product to use, and more worry free. Now if Reptile Relief did not work for an mite infestation, then I would try PAM next, but based off the research I have done and other people's recent first hand experience, I will try/use/recommend Reptile Relief before trying PAM.

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_s...1-20040505.pdf





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[martin82531]

If you would prefer to believe the label of the product over the personal experience of members of this site, so be it. I cannot say whether or not what they state on the package is true because I have not use that product.

I have used PAM in the past and it has worked flawlessly and I never needed to put any chemicals on my animals.

I do trust others on this forum and value their experience. Please see the threads below, Kitedemon is a member of this website and I believe he has made a good argument not use PAM. This is why I did research into other products and methods and chose Reptile Relief.


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...reptile+releif
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...rticular/page3

[Inknsteel]

No I have not used Reptile Relief or PAM for that mater, does this mean I'm not allowed to make recommendation? I think instead of saying something is garbage you should back up that claim with some type of facts or experience, like you did for example.

I have done research on both PAM and Reptile Relief for the purpose of being ready for mites if I ever have to deal with them, lucky for me I have not had to worry about such an issue.

The reason I recommended Reptile Relief is because the instructions and use of the product doesn't seem to be as stringent as PAM. Kitedemon provided the below link that shows how stringent and careful PAM needs to be used. For me Reptile Relief seems to be a simpler product to use, and more worry free. Now if Reptile Relief did not work for an mite infestation, then I would try PAM next, but based off the research I have done and other people's recent first hand experience, I will try/use/recommend Reptile Relief before trying PAM.

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_s...1-20040505.pdf





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I posted my personal experience with the two, and if you search this forum you will find several threads where other members have posted their experience with Reptile Relief. Remember, these are actual people with real experience with the product, not just someone copying and pasting from a website trying to sell their product. Until you have actually had the experience of mites in the collection, I wouldn't post your "recommendation" and criticize someone else who make a recommendation that contradicts yours... Do you have any evidence to back up your claims that Reptile Relieve does indeed eradicate mites?

[Kaorte]

Use whatever you feel comfortable with. The opinions of people on the forum are not some magical law that you are required to follow.

-In my experience, I have seen far more people fail at eradicating mites using solely reptile relief.

-I have seen no one complain of not being able to eradicate mites with a SINGLE pam use.


These are my experiences and I am merely providing my input so that other members can benefit from my experience.

Perhaps I should have said "In my opinion, reptile relief is garbage". Because that is in fact my opinion, and I'm sticking to it!

Let me make a small pros and cons list for both products based on my experience and understanding of the two.

Reptile Relief
Pros: can apply directly to the snake to kill mites on contact
Cons: may require multiple applications in order to completely eradicate mites, does not have a long lifespan once applied

PAM
Pros: kills mites on contact, continues to kill mites for up to 30 days.
Cons: Requires you to wait until the product dries before it is safe to introduce the reptile (due to harsh chemicals)



Again, this is a personal decision. I use PAM because it works for me and has posed no risk to me or my animals. I don't use it very often (only when I see mites) so I don't see how it could really affect mine or my animals health in the long term.

[martin82531]

I posted my personal experience with the two, and if you search this forum you will find several threads where other members have posted their experience with Reptile Relief. Remember, these are actual people with real experience with the product, not just someone copying and pasting from a website trying to sell their product. Until you have actually had the experience of mites in the collection, I wouldn't post your "recommendation" and criticize someone else who make a recommendation that contradicts yours... Do you have any evidence to back up your claims that Reptile Relieve does indeed eradicate mites?

Who said I criticized anyone else recommendation? All I said was if they have anything to back up their claim? What is wrong with wanting the facts verse opinion and directing the conversation to having a constructive discussion about the two products?

[Kaorte]

I do trust others on this forum and value their experience. Please see the threads below, Kitedemon is a member of this website and I believe he has made a good argument not use PAM. This is why I did research into other products and methods and chose Reptile Relief.


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...reptile+releif
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...rticular/page3

Kitedemon is a very helpful and informative member of this site, but I don't take all of his advice just because he presents a good point.

Yes it is a good point that the same pesticide used in PAM has been related to the deaths of snakes. But also be aware that those deaths were due to the use of NIX lice spray, which is not a product intended for reptiles. It has the same pesticide, but in a much higher concentration (I believe).

I have not heard of any snakes dying from using PAM exactly as the instructions indicate. I have also not heard of any snakes dying from using reptile relief, but I have heard of their continued mite battles with that product.


Again, if reptile relief is what you are comfortable using, then go for it! no one is going to stop you or say it is bad for your animal. Perhaps when (because it will happen eventually) you get a mite infestation you can share your experience with reptile relief. I have heard of some success with it, but not nearly as much success as PAM.

[Inknsteel]

I do trust others on this forum and value their experience. Please see the threads below, Kitedemon is a member of this website and I believe he has made a good argument not use PAM. This is why I did research into other products and methods and chose Reptile Relief.


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...reptile+releif
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...rticular/page3

So you're taking one user's thread and cautions against using Provent-A-Mite and dismissing the experience of the vast number of users who have experience with both products?

Nothing against Kitedemon because I feel he's a very valuable member of this forum with a lot of good advice, he also tends to err heavily on the side of caution. If you follow the directions on the can of PAM, don't apply directly to the reptile, use sparingly and let the enclosure dry until there's no smell before replacing the snake, then using Provent-A-Mite is safe and effective.

/hijack

OP - A picture showing the condition of the snake might help. I would recommend keeping the enclosure really clean, remove substrate and any unnecessary cage furniture and keep your snake on plain paper towel until you can get this diagnosed and treatment started.

EDIT: I'm at work and Kaorte apparently types faster than I do...