Two BP's, two different worlds.

[renage31]

I have two BP's living in one 55 gallon tank, one is mine and the other is my friends. My BP is thriving, she took a small rat (50 grams) last Sunday, she is about 12 months. My other BP has been an utter disaster. I bought her as a young juvie, in shed, with no record of feeding. She was at the store for about 3 weeks, and I of course let her settle into her new home for about 2 weeks.

After two weeks I offered her a pinkie, with no interest. Luckily my BP cleaned up the thawed pinkie (with very little trouble). Waited another two weeks, tried again, with no luck. Then I moved on to assist feed. I did that for three weeks, and noticed then she was having hydration issues. So I completely stopped force feeding, and addressed the hydration issue.

Gastro-fed pedialyte for 2 weeks, alternating days (48 hour intervals). Then I went to a alimentary diet of chicken baby food, pedialyte, crushed tum, and a dash of veg. oil. I gastro-fed her once a week, for 4 weeks now. She has little signs of improvement. I've tried everything I can for this snake, what do I do?

Is this stress related? Is the tank too large for her? Is the fact she's with another BP 5-6 months older intimidating her? Do I set up my 20 gallon tank and separate them?

I know my tank is well suited to be inhabited by BP's. I have a repti-fogger, maintaining 60% humidity at all times. I have a large exo-terra waterfall for constant clean drinking water. I have a large water bowl for soaking/bathing. 200 watt ceramic heat emitter for hot side (maintaining 90-95 degree heat) and cool side never dips below 80. Two hides on the warm side, and one on the cool. Plus a climbing branch to get even closer to the emitter if they so choose (and I've seen my BP do).

I've always done as much research as I could before executing my next move, but I've come to a cross-road where I'm uncomfortable letting my friend venture out on his own caring for this sick BP.

[interloc]

There is so much wrong with this but ima let someone else take it because I won't say any nice things.

[satomi325]

I have two BP's living in one 55 gallon tank, one is mine and the other is my friends. My BP is thriving, she took a small rat (50 grams) last Sunday, she is about 12 months. My other BP has been an utter disaster. I bought her as a young juvie, in shed, with no record of feeding. She was at the store for about 3 weeks, and I of course let her settle into her new home for about 2 weeks.

After two weeks I offered her a pinkie, with no interest. Luckily my BP cleaned up the thawed pinkie (with very little trouble). Waited another two weeks, tried again, with no luck. Then I moved on to assist feed. I did that for three weeks, and noticed then she was having hydration issues. So I completely stopped force feeding, and addressed the hydration issue.

Gastro-fed pedialyte for 2 weeks, alternating days (48 hour intervals). Then I went to a alimentary diet of chicken baby food, pedialyte, crushed tum, and a dash of veg. oil. I gastro-fed her once a week, for 4 weeks now. She has little signs of improvement. I've tried everything I can for this snake, what do I do?

What kind of pinky? Mouse or rat? Mice are too small. Try rat fuzzy or mouse hopper.

And you shouldn't have tube fed her. That is very dangerous and very stressful for her. It is totally unnecessary. For hydration, all you would need to do is soak her in a small bath. The stress is counteracting your efforts.

And it probably wasn't dehydration you were seeing if you provided her with water and assist fed pinks. BPs get all of their water from their meals. In captivity, we provide bowls, but it isn't really necessary if they're eating. It just sounds like she's too skinny, and that's what you were seeing.

Is this stress related? Is the tank too large for her? Is the fact she's with another BP 5-6 months older intimidating her? Do I set up my 20 gallon tank and separate them?
.

Yes. Yes. Yes, but not from intimidation. And yes.
Your snake is probably freaked out and scared.

I always keep babies in shoe box sized enclosures. They're really sensitive to large open spaces. And you should always quarantine new animals. If the younger one was failing to thrive because of an illness, it could have passed to your own snake.


So. First order of business.
1) put your baby in a smaller enclosure. I think 20 gal may still be too large. A 10 would be better suited. You can always try a tub set up as an alternative as well. Make sure there's lots of clutter and cover to make it feel less open.
2) black out 3 sides of the enclosure with paper or background. This will make the enclosure feel more secure.
3) she also needs tight fitting hides where she can touch all sides of the hide. The ones in your 55 sound too large.
4) stop tube feeding immediately
5) offer a live prey hopper mouse in a week.

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[JDN]

Force fed after 4 weeks? Before trying a live mouse?
Houseing two in one enclosure?
Dont take this the wrong way because its only one opinion and your not going to like it.

Put the poor guy In a tub with nothing but water, hides and hotspot.
Leave him alone except for feeding. Try frozen if you want then try live mice.

Who suggested force feeding? Petco?
No wonder he won't eat.

Im newish and only basing this off the small information I've acquired from a handfull of books and the masses around the net.

Force feeding? 4 weeks. Hrm

[snakesRkewl]

I'm with others, you haven't done your research or if you have you've done it in the wrong places.

Nikki has some good advise ^^^

[renage31]

K, I'll take the advice.

Lets see what happens.

DVM recommended the gastro... I guess it is a bad idea to take advice from vets...

[SnowShredder]

Force fed after 4 weeks? Before trying a live mouse?
Houseing two in one enclosure?
Dont take this the wrong way because its only one opinion and your not going to like it.

Force feeding? 4 weeks. Hrm

I second this, completely. Force feeding is a last resort. And I bet you the stress of being in a large enclosure AND being house with another ball is what's causing it

[Pythonfriend]

a big enclosure is not the problem, a small snake can be happy in a big enclosure if you offer different hides of the right size.


but keeping two BPs together is a bad idea. when one reptile or snake doesnt like the other one, it goes like this, snake 1 says: "Im going to harass you until you go away." Next day: "probarbly wasnt enough, the other guy is still here, got to stress her more". Day 3: "ok this is getting annoying. i stressed out my competitor for 2 full days now, he wont leave. i guess i need to ramp it up". Day 4: "i still dont understand why the other guy isnt leaving, seems like the stress is starting to work, somehow he wont leave. ill be merciful today, ill just deny him all the areas of the tank that are at a nice temp and tolerate him in areas that are too cold or too hot for me". Day 5: "what was i thinking, i want the other guy gone.... harassment all he way today". Day 6: "today i believed he was finally gone. then i went for a drink and find out he is hiding in the water bowl. freakin stalker, whats WRONG, why wont he leave? ill have to try harder to make his life miserable".

Thats why the EASY way is to keep them alone. keeping reptiles in groups and getting it to work requires much more work, much more space, more money, more experience, and you always have to be able to isolate individuals or split up the group if things go bad. Stress caused by other reptiles can affect the health of a reptile really badly. Im no expert in keeping groups, but the one thing i know about keeping reptiles in groups is that its no way to save money or work, its no shortcut, its the opposite. Its harder and more challenging.

about the feeding, try feeding live, or try assist feeding. Assist feeding is when you just open the mouth of a snake and just place a food item in the mouth. Not deep in. so that the snake can decide to swallow it or drop it. Force feeding is really stressful and risky. i think the feeding problems are related to the stress problems. snakes that are totally stressed out wont eat, because to properly digest they need to expect to be left alone for a while.

[SnowShredder]

Day 6: "today i believed he was finally gone. then i went for a drink and find out he is hiding in the water bowl. freakin stalker, whats WRONG, why wont he leave?".

hahahahaha

[JDN]

K, I'll take the advice.

Lets see what happens.

DVM recommended the gastro... I guess it is a bad idea to take advice from vets...

Check your vet's credentials. Are they an exotic herp vet? Are they experienced with ball pythons?
4 weeks seems very fast to force feed a reptile. They can go off feed for months at a time in the wild.