Spider X Albino.......?

[wendy]

Hi guys, I have a few questions about my future projects, hope someone can help!
If I bred my Co-Dom (spider) Male to a Reccessive (Albino)Female, what would be the most realistic outcome?
Also, if I bred my Co-Dom (spider) to a Piedbald(female) which I don't have yet, but hopefully my spider will buy me a couple!What would be that out come?
I know some genetics, but not everything.
I am pretty sure if I bred my Co-Dom (spider) to my normal, I would get @ least 25% spiders, 1 normal and the rest hets,Right? It's a little hard to follow, I have been out of school quite some time. And haven't went to easy on my brain cells!!
I just hope I get some cool outcomes from my breeding efforts. It's kinda like playing GOD, creating different morphs. Wish me luck, as I will need it!

[JamminJonah]

here are some genetics links:

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_intro.html

http://www.ballboutique.com/genetics.htm

[JLC]

A spider x albino would mean that some babies would probably be spiders and all babies would be het for albino.

Same thing with a spider x pied. Probably some spiders, and all the animals het for pied.

A spider x a normal would probably give you some spiders and the rest would be totally normal. There is no "het" for spider. If it has the spider gene, it will show in its color/pattern. If it doesn't show, then the gene is not present. So there's no such thing as a "possible het for spider."

Good luck with the breeding projects.

[emroul]

When you breed a spider to a normal, the outcome will MOST LIKELY (but definately not definate, lol) be 50% of the clutch will be spiders. Sometimes it's 10%, sometimes its 70%. It's all a gamble. But since it is a dominate trait, there will definately be spiders in the clutch. When breeding a spider to an albino, you will get, like mentioned above, the same "chanced" outcome of spiders, yet every single baby will be 100% definate het for albino; none will be albinos.

With Dominate and Co-dominate, there are NO hets (aka: normal-looking animals that carry a gene for a color morph). In co-dominate (such as pastel) the pastel is considered a "visual heterozygous" for the homozygous form "super pastel".

So, let me just get this straight, though. You spend upwards $20,000 on some animals, and you're not really sure what you will get if you breed them all together? Man, talk about having money to blow. :shock: Sorry, but I just had to get that out.

Good luck,
Jennifer

[emroul]

Oh, and you said that spiders were Co-Dom, they are not. They are a dominate trait. Co-dominate would mean there is a "super" form of the spider, which there isn't. Just FYI.

Jennifer

[Kara]

Also keep in mind with some "dominant" morphs that the super version isn't visibly different, but will still produce all visibles when bred to a normal. Hypo boas are a great example of this.

K

[RandyRemington]

Sorry, have to throw in my two bits ...

If it turns out that spider is completely dominant AND BOTH of your spider's parents where spiders then there is a 33% chance that he is homozygous for the spider gene and all of his offspring will be spiders.

Most, if not all, spiders so far are heterozygous for the spider gene. Heterozygous doesn't mean "normal looking" it only means that they have unmatched genes - in this case one spider and one normal copy of the same gene. With recessive mutations the heterozygous animals are supposed to look normal but with co-dominant and dominant they are mutants. So it is true that you shouldn't see "possible hets" offered for co-dominant genes but it is perfectly ok to talk about a "het spider" to refer to a spider (not normal looking) with one copy of the gene. If homozygous spiders are proven and they end up looking like heterozygous spiders then you will probably hear "het spider" all the time to distinguish between the ones with one and the ones with two copies of the spider gene. Homozygous spiders would be valuable breeders as they would produce on average twice as many spiders bred to a normal, 25% more spiders (twice as many of them homozygous) than breeding het spider X het spider, and all homozygous spiders when bred to another homozygous spider.

Also, the odds for each baby from a heterozygous spider X non spider is 50/50 for getting the spider gene. Each babies odds are independent of the others so you are not guaranteed at least one spider in a clutch. You will probably get about half spiders but you could get all spiders or even no spiders. The bigger the clutch the less likely of getting either extreme. With an 8 egg clutch from heterozygous spider X normal your odds of getting no spiders are only 0.4% which means you have a 99.6% chance of getting at least one. Also, your odds of getting 8 spiders is only 0.4%. If there where only 4 eggs you would have a 6.25% chance of getting all or no spiders (93.75% chance of getting at least one spider). So, your odds are good of producing spiders but there are no guarantees.

In fact, these odds are the same when breeding any het to a non het. It's just that with spiders you can see the hets. If you where breeding a het albino to a normal girl and produced 4 daughters you would have a 93.75% chance that at least one was het albino. You just wouldn't know which one until you bred them. I actually did this with a 1998 albino het male from NERD and so far two of the four daughters produced in 2000 have produced and one proved het albino. The other one only had two eggs and since she was only bred to a het albino male (he actually started out 66% chance but proved with the first clutch) she could still well be a het and I missed exposing it with only two eggs from het X het. Hopefully I'll get the last two daughters to breed soon but I know there is only a 6.25% chance of them all being hets.

[wendy]

Thanks everyone for spelling it out for me. I usually breed geckoes, and you kinda know what you are gonna get. But with all these morph's it gets confusing sometimes, doesn't take much I guess,LOL. Especially when you get into hets and double and triple hets, and 66% this and 50% that and possible this and 33% possible that. The co-dominate this and recessive that, the het this and homo that. It's like a mad science project.But I am up for the challenge.I really appreciate everyones input. I understand it all a little better now, thank you all very much, I really do appreciate it.

[wendy]

So, let me just get this straight, though. You spend upwards $20,000 on some animals, and you're not really sure what you will get if you breed them all together? Man, talk about having money to blow. :shock: Sorry, but I just had to get that out.

Good luck,
Jennifer

I spent a **** load of money, with having a pretty damb good idea what I would get , but wasn't sure of alot of the genetics and some terms. I am grateful to the input on this forum to help me understand things a little bit better.
And as far as blowing money, instead of buying stocks and bonds, I would rather herp. I was in an accident that left me paralized, and I can't work. But I love this hobby, Hopefully I will make my money back and then some. I'll let my animals take care of me as I care for them. It's a win-win situation. I think that I am lucky to do something I really enjoy.Not everyone has that oppertunity, unfortuneatley.I think that is the meaning of life. And by doing these projects and offering my animals for more people to enjoy, over time the prices will drop and even more people can enjoy the higher end morphs.
Thank you for your genetic input.

[wendy]

Not to start an argument here, but it all depends were you read up on things. The Snake Keeper has a spider listed as dominant, Morph King Reptiles has spiders as codominant.So who is right?