My little rant......

[gen]

N00bs that show up here asking for advice should be encouraged and directed to the answers. If they are giving what is commonly considered wrong advice, they should be tactfully informed of this. Most people can be reasoned with, if you try. Flame wars solve nothing.

Well said, RPlank. I agree.

[Wizill]

there's a difference between them showing up, and them taking over the forums.

[Wizill]

every noob we speak of in this thread gets a snake, registers, asks a billion questions and then BAM... they are a freakin' expert.

[JLC]

In the end, it's up to the person who asked the question in the first place to decide what makes the most sense.

I have to disagree with that statement a bit. If someone is coming to the forum to get some advice then they obviously don't know what to do in the case of whatever they are asking about. If it is left up to them to decide "what makes the most sense" they may not choose what is right.

Example - It "makes the most sense" to feed live since that is what snakes eat in the wild. Yet that is a horrible idea. I believe all are entitled to give advice on what they feel qualified to do so. BUT when someone gives incorrect advice it SHOULD be pointed out as incorrect by a more qualified keeper so that the member asking the question doesn't choose the wrong advice by the simple idea that it is "what makes the most sense"

I'm sorry, but this is just wrong. It IS completely up to each and every person who owns a snake to figure out how best to care for that snake. What are you (or David or anyone else) going to do? Are you going to go over to their house to make sure they follow your advice? Are you going to take their snakes away if they don't keep them in a manner to your liking?

No matter WHERE you look on the 'Net, or in books, or whatnot, you're going to find contradicting advice on how to keep any animal. You can't protect someone from bad advice...all you can do is offer your own advice and hope they see which makes the best sense. But the choice about what they do is theirs, not yours. Hopefully, someone intelligent enough to find such a site on the 'Net, and caring enough to ask the questions they need to, will be able to figure out what the best answers are and care enough to implement them for the good of their pet. But there's nothing YOU can do except offer your opinion to add to the mix of what they get to choose from.

And if that opinion is mixed with derision and flames and calling other people idiots...who do you think the "newb" is most likely to listen to??? Are they even going to bother to wade through the heated arguments to find out the best method to feed their snake? I wouldn't. I would go somewhere else.

If we can't have a discussion about husbandry techniques without it breaking down into a flame war...If we can't allow new people to post their views and opinions and then HELPFULLY teach them along the way...then we will be no different than every other herp forum I've found. And that will be a very sad day, indeed.

If you feel like the only people qualified to post advice are those with years of experience and many different snakes and other herps under their belt, then perhaps starting (and staying at) your own forum is the answer. You can make the rules in your own forum about who can post advice and who can do nothing but sit and read. But if you did that...how many people do you think would actually be reading all of your great advice?

[Wizill]

I'm sorry, but this is just wrong. It IS completely up to each and every person who owns a snake to figure out how best to care for that snake. What are you (or David or anyone else) going to do? Are you going to go over to their house to make sure they follow your advice? Are you going to take their snakes away if they don't keep them in a manner to your liking?

if you live around me and you're keeping a snake in poor living conditions, and i know about it i'm coming over to either correct them or take your snake.

[JLC]

I'm not talking about someone who lives next door or down the street. I'm talking about everyone who comes to these forums looking for advice. And I really don't think you'd take my snake because I keep it in a glass enclosure rather than rubbermaid...or on some substrate other than newspaper...or if I feed it live instead of frozen...etc.

[Smulkin]

WOW.

I know we can all differentiate between FACTS and OPINIONS. I'd like to see an end to Ad Hominem attacks (don't resort to personal attacks because you feel there are innacuracies, or because someone corrected you). Most of my snakes poop weekly - I do not jump up and pronounce that the norm, the truth nor decry any information which contradicts it. Fiel under Observation. One of the things I like most about the site is that there were a LOT of observations folks feltt they could freely share - and folks like me could read all of these observations and synthesize them along with other information to reach my own conclusions when needed.

Sure - glaring innacuracies need to be corrected. I think there is nothing wrong with ANYONE trying to help out ANYONE else regardless of level of experience - the onus is on the more experienced folks and mods if necessary to correct/adjust the advice given when it deviates widely. There is not, nor should there be, some Heirarchy of Informational Authority dictating who should be paid more attention to - whose advice followed more closely - and there will not be a titular head throwing pearls of wisdom to swine. There are obviously personal politics abound here, and you KNOW if you are involved in them. IT ought to be easy enough to differentiate between attack and correction. In the end filling a post with piss'n'venom is a surefire way to get 80% to discount any point you are trying to get across - perceptually those kind of posts read as pure opinion, regarldless of the facts.

There are an astronomical sh**load of variables at work - absolutism isn't going to cut it.

Heh - sorry about this - i realize a thread that started in rant has now ended in babble


Has everyone vented enough? Can we go to recess now? I have to pee.

I think some people need to stop taking this discussion as a personal attack.....this is a general discussion and is NOT meant to be a flame war or anything like that. Saying things like

This is just wrong

are not conduscive to a civil discussion. Telling someone they are "just wrong" is insulting. Thats not what is trying to be accomplished here.

[gozetec02]

No joke Smulkin we have posted this string to death. At this point I dont care what the noobs post because i know what what i am doing. I say LET THEM POST what ever comment they want and we will deal with it as it comes. To suggest that people not post replies because they dont know anything is insane. There are lots of people in this world that dont know crap yet still dish it out. I hate what this has become. We went from a great community to a bickering community complaining about this and complaining about that, people need to do this people need to do that. I am sick of it. In actuality people dont NEED to do anything. People will do what they want. But to make a post saying that people who dont know much need not post. It almost sounds like we dont care about thier opinion. If people didnt post advice thats not 100% correct THEN HOW ARE WE GOING TO POINT THEM IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. It was posted before that people dont need to take our advice if they dont want to. And if thats the case too bad for them, some people just have to learn the hard way.

Every one here is afraid to name names. But it was Maniac that said to feed with your hands. But since this i have not seen him around too much and this SUX he was really turning around and was going on to be a great herper and i am sure he will be a great herper. All this is doing is discourging the new guys from keeping herps and discourging them from coming to this community.

Listen to us "should noobs post advice" I say yes go for it why the hell not. What would happen if we all just stopped giving advice. Lets just say hypetheticly that from this day forward when someone asked a question no one posted a reply. Not even a hello or a how you doing, but nothing. Its the equivelent to dead air if you dont hear anything then you are going to change the channel. I dont want that to happen. What do people think when the come to the site and see freakin 46 posts about how noobs need not post here. To me thats chasing them away with a stick.

I am sorry for the long winded post but i sat back a little just to watch what was going to happen and i just couldnt take it anymore.

Damien....I really think you should re-read this thread because it sounds like you have the message(s) all mixed up. Where did anyone say noobs should'nt POST? Posting and giving advice are not one and the same.

I'm certainly NOT afraid to name names, I just haven't done so out of courtesy and not wanting to start a flame war. Maniac only "turned around" after he was threatened with being banned.....this of course was after he verbally accosted this site, its members, and *physically threatened* myself. But thats neither here nor there.

I am sorry for the long winded post but i sat back a little just to watch what was going to happen and i just couldnt take it anymore.

Well, I suppose I should apologize for being a concerned member of the community. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything....maybe you, Damien would be happier with the crap that has become more prevalent on the forums to become the norm....your standards may be low, but mine aren't when it concerns the care of the animals.