OK I keep getting flack for keeping my snakes in a rack system

[KingPythons]

Decent substrate ? Oh man, kentucky zoo?? Ok
First that's a zoo 2nd they are funded do u really think they paid for it out they own pocket? We are talking about what works here and what you spent out of your pocket now. If your balling Mr Baller then keep them on what u like! Just sayin

[Austin C.]

Decent substrate ? Oh man, kentucky zoo?? Ok
First that's a zoo 2nd they are funded do u really think they paid for it out they own pocket? We are talking about what works here and what you spent out of your pocket now. If your balling Mr Baller then keep them on what u like! Just sayin

Exactly! we aren't all made of money, we do what works for us financially and what keep our animals healthy.

[RoseyReps]

Arrggg, boy..I'm gonna hop the pond and bonk you on the head!

Opinions ARE offensive if they are insulting an entire group of people! Let's do this the blatantly nasty, and over-the-top way.

Person A says: Hey, you! Group of homosexual guys! I think you're all disgusting and only do it for attention! Because you're different than me!

Group of awesome dudes: Are you kidding me? How dare you! You butt(other word)hat!

Person A: Hey, don't get offended. It's just my opinion!

Do you see how naive this is? Expecting people to not be offended when you DIRECTLY insult them, is just...well... derpy.
You did good saying you didn't mean to offend. The thing I'm trying to get across is even if you believe something, even if you believe that people who do bare minimum are not passionate, or as passionate, about their reptiles...you don't need to shout that from the rooftops. Or if you do, expect some backlash. Going back to my other post, think before you speak. "Will what I am about to say hurt another person? Is it worth it? Does that statement NEED to be said?" In this case, no. It did not. You did not have to go as far as to tell the large masses that you think they aren't passionate and only care about money.

If someone insults you directly, especially about something you care deeply about, and you can still shrug it off because, hey...it's their opinion.. Good on you. Most people cannot, and honestly, shouldn't have to. There is hardly ever a reason to hurt someone by putting them down. In debating, if you resort to personal attacks, name calling, etc, you are admitting defeat and that you have no solid point to make on the debate.

I'm sorry, but I am just so tired of the generation of "I can say what I want, when I want, so what if it hurts people" IE: the ME ME ME generation. Maybe you're a part of it, maybe you're not, I care not. Just explaining my opinion

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

To add to my last post:

Bps in racks is replicating what they are accustomed to in the wild. Small, tight, dark hole. Those are the bullet points the snake looks for when choosing a rodents den. Tight, dark, warm. They don't choose which one has a better floor, "oh..well this one has sticks, but that one over there..it has dead grass...oh and this one has dirt! Ho hum...I guess I'll go with the dead grass...no..too itchy, ok, dirt!..." No, the reptilian brain is much more, well, reptilian.
Tight? Check.
Dark? Check.
Warm? Check.
*happy snake face*
*sleeps*

How are we to know which flooring the bps prefer? We can't, and we never will. Who's to say they don't prefer the newspaper? It's smoother than au'natural, non-abrasive on their tummies...Maybe they do like to read, we'll never know.

So, back to our situation. What is a tub, with newspaper substrate (I don't personally like newspaper, the ink etc. I prefer cypress or aspen, but we'll use the evils of newspaper for this) consist of?
Tight? Check.
Dark? Check.
Warm? Check.

Added bonus - some keepers use hides, MORE TIGHTNESS & DARKNESS WOOT! (That was from the bp's mouth, just being silly, sorry.)
Added bonus - constant fresh water
Added bonus - rats come to MEEEEEEE
Added bonus - no other snakes tryin'a take my house. (sorry, bp went all gangster there for a sec)

Bare minimum for a living ball python, well you can see that all day long on craigslist. 20L aquarium, screen top, heat light, half log hide, repti-carpet/paper/aspen/pine*cringe*/whatever-is-on-sale-at-wal-mart.
Racks are far from bare minimum.


Oye...I need to sleep...

You're awesome

[I-KandyReptiles]

I have both racks and an enclosure for my bps.

When I purchased my enclosure I was under the impression he would be my only Bp (LOL)

Heres his enclosure:


My other 4 bps reside in my rack, on paper towel.

Both eat fine, shed fine and seem "happy" in general.

Honesty though, cleaning the tank is such a pain compared to cleaning my tubs.

[barbie.dragon]

Why are we still attacking each other? People already apologized and clarified. Let's stop stirring the pot and go on worldofballpythons.com/wizard and calm ourselves down

[Crotalids]

Ok. Let me get this straight. You're arguing about ball python husbandry on a ball python forum with ball python keepers who have kept these snakes for years and you don't even own one or have ever owned a ball??
(you mentioned this in your very first thread)



Ball pythons aren't generally active snakes. Basic Ball Pythons 101 - The more active they are, that means something is wrong with the husbandry or set up.
This is why they make horrid display animals. They are sound and 'happy' when hiding. Activity means they are stressed and are 'trying to find a way out'.
The reason why people do the things they do is because it works. I'm sure tons of people have tried a verity of set ups ranging from bare racks to pvc enclosures to glass tanks and so on. People have been doing this for years and have found that ball pythons (specifically) do very well in a tighter enclosure with minimalistic set up than other species. Ball pythons are a species known to be extremely picky and rather sensitive to their husbandry. If a bare, tight set up didn't work, they wouldn't thrive in captivity. With that said, they do better in tighter enclosures than extra large. Display enclosures can work for a ball python, but it really needs to be cluttered up to make them feel secure in place of a tighter enclosure. Insecure ball pythons go off feed and stress easily.

Balls in the wild aren't roaming around constantly. They're in a rodent burrow or termite mound. If you've seen an ASF, they're not very large. I can't imagine their burrows are very large either....And yeah... sitting underground must be EXTREMELY enriching................. I can't imagine how to replicate such an enriching setting...


Like everyone else said, they're in there 90% of the time for food and shelter. They are nocturnal animals so they don't tend to come out during the day. The only reasons they leave their shelter other than for breeding is because the resources(food) have been depleted and they travel to another burrow or mound to take up residence and eat. Since we provide food and water, they have no need to look for another 'burrow'.

Your argument works great for other species, but it's really pointless for a ball.....

I wish I could put my ball pythons in an elaborate set up. I think they're gorgeous.
I use a simple rack system because they seem to do the best in it. And I choose their comfort over my desire of seeing an visually aesthetic enclosure. Some people have beautiful set ups for their balls, but it's really no greater than a rack. The visual is more for human want than ball python need.
Also since ball pythons tend to hide 90% of the time, I would rather dedicate that elaborate enclosure to some other species that would utilize the space and set up.



I do agree with you on the evolution part, however.
Ball pythons are not 'domesticated'. Domesticated would mean that they are entirely different from their wild counterparts in Africa.
And they're not.

True. But like i stated earlier, Royals may not be active, but that's nothing compared to my Gaboons. Royals may also stress, also nothing compared to rhinoceros and nasicornis.

Decent substrate ? Oh man, kentucky zoo?? Ok
First that's a zoo 2nd they are funded do u really think they paid for it out they own pocket? We are talking about what works here and what you spent out of your pocket now. If your balling Mr Baller then keep them on what u like! Just sayin

I'm on about their venom extraction facility. It's got nothing to do with being a 'baller', substrate isn't exactly expensive.

Arrggg, boy..I'm gonna hop the pond and bonk you on the head!

Opinions ARE offensive if they are insulting an entire group of people! Let's do this the blatantly nasty, and over-the-top way.

Person A says: Hey, you! Group of homosexual guys! I think you're all disgusting and only do it for attention! Because you're different than me!

Group of awesome dudes: Are you kidding me? How dare you! You butt(other word)hat!

Person A: Hey, don't get offended. It's just my opinion!

Do you see how naive this is? Expecting people to not be offended when you DIRECTLY insult them, is just...well... derpy.
You did good saying you didn't mean to offend. The thing I'm trying to get across is even if you believe something, even if you believe that people who do bare minimum are not passionate, or as passionate, about their reptiles...you don't need to shout that from the rooftops. Or if you do, expect some backlash. Going back to my other post, think before you speak. "Will what I am about to say hurt another person? Is it worth it? Does that statement NEED to be said?" In this case, no. It did not. You did not have to go as far as to tell the large masses that you think they aren't passionate and only care about money.

If someone insults you directly, especially about something you care deeply about, and you can still shrug it off because, hey...it's their opinion.. Good on you. Most people cannot, and honestly, shouldn't have to. There is hardly ever a reason to hurt someone by putting them down. In debating, if you resort to personal attacks, name calling, etc, you are admitting defeat and that you have no solid point to make on the debate.

I'm sorry, but I am just so tired of the generation of "I can say what I want, when I want, so what if it hurts people" IE: the ME ME ME generation. Maybe you're a part of it, maybe you're not, I care not. Just explaining my opinion

Haha! Well i'm definitely one of the people who doesn't take notice of someones opinion after all it's only words, what damage can words do? none. I've had people be racist to me before, i didn't get offended, i talked to them about it instead, to try and and make them see why it's wrong. Being offended doesn't solve anything.

[DooLittle]

Why are we still attacking each other? People already apologized and clarified. Let's stop stirring the pot and go on worldofballpythons.com/wizard and calm ourselves down

Because we are all passionate about our animals....

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

[RoseyReps]

Haha! Well i'm definitely one of the people who doesn't take notice of someones opinion after all it's only words, what damage can words do? none. I've had people be racist to me before, i didn't get offended, i talked to them about it instead, to try and and make them see why it's wrong. Being offended doesn't solve anything.

And that, is exactly what is wrong with a lot of people. Not caring if they offend, or hurt people. I will bow out now, as I see you are in fact, a me person. Kudos to you for having thick skin, I applaud that and it is a fine trait. Sadly, that trait sometimes goes hand in hand with callousness and general rude attitudes, and that is not, in my opinion, a fine trait at all. (Not saying you are this way, as I don't know you personally, just what I have seen via forum)

I will always care if my words hurt people, and I will always disagree that "sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me". After 4 years of verbal abuse from my ex-husband, being told no one would ever want me, that I was lucky to have him, and that I was trash, I know words CAN and DO hurt. I grew some thick skin after I finally left him, but I try to always take care when talking in general because I am aware not everyone has thick skin. I feel very strongly about this subject, and I apologize for those looking for a caging debate. I've helped steer this entirely off topic, and to the OP, I hope you got a decent answer out of all of this

But alas, there is a time when it is best to bow out. Debating one another about something we both aren't going to budge on, is redundant and not very fascinating for the readers. I enjoyed the discussion though, and it was interesting to see the different opinions on the natural vs rack set up.

Edit: Actually, you are probably not a "Me" person entirely. As you stated, you talked someone through their offensive remarks. That's great, honestly. So many could not do that. I applaud you for your ability to keep a cool head when faced with such blatant disregard for other people.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

To the OP ignore your friend and keep your animal the way you want to keep them if their needs are met than you are doing a great job with your animals and don't anyone tell you otherwise.

To Crotalids how long have you been working with Ball Pythons again? and who are you to judge one's passion based on the way they keep their animals?

I was gonna write a lengthy post and then I changed my mind, after reading your answers it is clear to me that you have a very LIMITED experience when it comes to BP (yes this thread is about Ball Pythons not Gaboon or other hots) and therefore I won't waste my time except to say that you are having a great start on this forum judging other based on YOUR opinion and lack of experience.

Now my take on BP housing, to me as long as the animal's need are met and the animal healthy, feeding and stress free that's all that matter.