OK I keep getting flack for keeping my snakes in a rack system

[Mike41793]

I will always disagree with you on this. As I will never keep any of my animals in a small enclosure, or an enclosure that doesn't represent their natural habitat. If I ever did, that would be the day I stop keeping reptiles.

I'm not saying its wrong, but it shows a lack of passion in my eyes.

The tubs that i keep my bps in DO represent their natural habitat. In the wild they spend 90% of their time in rodent burrows. They go into a rodent burrow, eat the inhabitant, stay there until theyre hungry again and then go find another meal. During breeding season they obviously are more focused on breeding though lol. The climate in these burrows is similar to how i keep the climate in the tubs. Just bc theyre on newspaper instead of dirt makes NO difference to the snake.

To suggest i dont have passion for the hobby just bc the way i keep my animals isnt the way you keep yours is rude. Last time i checked aquariums were made for fish. In my opinion YOURE the one who has has a lack of passion for your animals bc youre keeping them in something designed for aquatic creatures.

[ballpythonluvr]

I used to keep my ball pythons in tanks until they went off feed, had bad sheds, and kept trying to escape. I never thought I would keep a ball python in a rack system but I have to say now that I have them in one, there is no turning back for me. I was very adamant about not using tubs for a long time. I eventually broke down and did what is best for "my snakes." I no longer have bad sheds or animals going off feed for extended periods of time. My snakes also do not roam around looking for a way out of their tubs.

[Crotalids]

Sorry guys, i forgot the Royal Pythons evolved living on newspaper.

A lot of the time keepers keep them on newspaper because they can't be bothered with the extra time it takes to clean out a naturalistic viv...If that isn't a lack of passion then i don't know what is.

I'm not knocking the use of plastic tubs they're fine, it's the set ups. I see so many people keeping other snakes like Gaboon Vipers on newspaper, when it's a burrowing snake! How is it supposed to exercise it's wild nature - to borrow and hide. My Gaboons are in substrate an Inch and a half thick and they aren't even more than half an inch thick themselves.

You nor i can definitively say that a natural enclosure doesn't benefit the snake. After all these snakes have evolved to live in those specific habitats, so we as keepers should try to replicate that as closely as possible. Not just see money signs in our eyes, and keep everything to a minimum.

Keeping snakes on newspaper, doesn't mean you're less likely to harbor critters. Mine are all in naturalistic set ups and i've never had a break out of mites, parasites etc. It's no harder to clean a venomous tank, you take the snake out of the cage and then clean it - simple.



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The tubs that i keep my bps in DO represent their natural habitat. In the wild they spend 90% of their time in rodent burrows. They go into a rodent burrow, eat the inhabitant, stay there until theyre hungry again and then go find another meal. During breeding season they obviously are more focused on breeding though lol. The climate in these burrows is similar to how i keep the climate in the tubs. Just bc theyre on newspaper instead of dirt makes NO difference to the snake.

To suggest i dont have passion for the hobby just bc the way i keep my animals isnt the way you keep yours is rude. Last time i checked aquariums were made for fish. In my opinion YOURE the one who has has a lack of passion for your animals bc youre keeping them in something designed for aquatic creatures.

It's an Exo Terra, do your research before you say it's an aquarium.

So i assume you have made a rodent burrow in your tub? I don't have any objection to the use of tubs.

[Kinra]

I'm not saying its wrong, but it shows a lack of passion in my eyes.

I don't see how my choice of housing can be used to measure my passion for the animals I keep. Most of my friends and family wouldn't dare to venture into my apartment because of the animals I keep, be they in tanks or tubs. Since I can't share my passion for these creatures in my own home I choose to keep them in ways that are easier to maintain and meet their needs.

The way I share my passion for them is by being a part of the local herpeteological society and participating in the shows they do. We spent an entire weekend earlier this year at a children's expo sharing our passion for herps in a way that can't be done from our homes. In my eyes passion is something that should be shared and I choose to use my resources in a way that allows me to share my passion. As long as my reptiles' needs are met, I don't see how housing should come in to play at all when it comes to judging my passion.

[MrLang]

Sorry guys, i forgot the Royal Pythons evolved living on newspaper.

I assume you live in a tree? You'd be totally robbed of your natural experience to live in a house. So weird.. walls? Roof? FLUSHING TOILET? get out of here! You must be suffering from some kind of psychological peril by being forced to live in these unnatural conditions.

[Crotalids]

I assume you live in a tree? You'd be totally robbed of your natural experience to live in a house. So weird.. walls? Roof? FLUSHING TOILET? get out of here! You must be suffering from some kind of psychological peril by being forced to live in these unnatural conditions.

Oh, so Royal's have the same level of intellect that we do?

So they're able to go and work, make a living, try to better themselves and improve their surroundings? If they were able to do that, I'm sure they would opt for a much better housing standards than what most keepers give.

It would also be natural for me to not have a job etc, and just live in the Jungle. But as it happens i was born in the 20th century, times change - you can't really compare a snake to a superior race like ourselves.

[barbie.dragon]

I assume you live in a tree? You'd be totally robbed of your natural experience to live in a house. So weird.. walls? Roof? FLUSHING TOILET? get out of here! You must be suffering from some kind of psychological peril by being forced to live in these unnatural conditions.

Why would humans be living in a tree as a natural environment? We didn't evolve from monkeys...

[RoseyReps]

Sorry guys, i forgot the Royal Pythons evolved living on newspaper.

Just like your venomous evolved in a glass box, with a human staring at them, snapping pictures while they try and hide.. Do you see how asinine that sounds? Get off your high horse, and stop putting people down because they don't conform to what you believe the snake likes best. You said yourself there is no way for us to know what the snake prefers, assuming in both situations the snakes are feeding, active, disease free etc. Assuming that everyone other than yourself, or everyone who doesn't "recreate a rat burrow" in their set ups is not passionate, and/or "has dollar signs in their eyes" is flat out childish and rude. Sorry mate, but you are not better than any other person on this forum, and your little exo-terra vivs don't give you the right to put others in our hobby, with thriving beautiful snakes, down.

Coming here and sharing your beautiful animals is greatly appreciated. Giving your advice, which I'm sure you have mountains of, is also very much appreciated. (that was only slightly sarcastic...sorry, you really irked me. I don't doubt you have extensive knowledge, but I can't stand when people think they are better than everyone else) but making a swipe at the general populous of bp keepers that they are not passionate, and talking down to numerous members, is not appreciated. At all.

[reptileexperts]

Crot the species have evolved as domesticated animals. They are still wild in true nature, but domesticated by selection. We do our best to accomodate their needs using tubs. So yes, Royal Pythons have evolved through domestication to live on news paper, how about that!

[Crotalids]

Just like your venomous evolved in a glass box, with a human staring at them, snapping pictures while they try and hide.. Do you see how asinine that sounds? Get off your high horse, and stop putting people down because they don't conform to what you believe the snake likes best. You said yourself there is no way for us to know what the snake prefers, assuming in both situations the snakes are feeding, active, disease free etc. Assuming that everyone other than yourself, or everyone who doesn't "recreate a rat burrow" in their set ups is not passionate, and/or "has dollar signs in their eyes" is flat out childish and rude. Sorry mate, but you are not better than any other person on this forum, and your little exo-terra vivs don't give you the right to put others in our hobby, with thriving beautiful snakes, down.

Coming here and sharing your beautiful animals is greatly appreciated. Giving your advice, which I'm sure you have mountains of, is also very much appreciated. (that was only slightly sarcastic...sorry, you really irked me. I don't doubt you have extensive knowledge, but I can't stand when people think they are better than everyone else) but making a swipe at the general populous of bp keepers that they are not passionate, and talking down to numerous members, is not appreciated. At all.

Nothing about captivity is natural, granted. But does that mean just because one aspect of keeping isn't, you just disregard the rest and make everything completely unnatural? Size is also another thing, a lot of the time racks are used so people can cram in as many snakes as they can. Which is wrong again, when my Gaboon Vipers are older maybe 6ft, they will be going into 10ft Viv's - not because i'm a millionaire but because i want to provide the best enclosure i can. I would rather have less snakes, and all kept in big vivs where they can exhibit their natural behaviors rather than more snakes and cramp them in racks which aren't even the length of the snake.

You seem to be under the impression that a snake will only feed/breed if it is happy and healthy...That isn't correct, it is survival. It is programmed into animals to survive and keep the species going. There are many reptiles that aren't feeding consistently, and are ridden with disease yet they will breed.

It's got nothing to do with what i keep my snakes in, you could keep yours in a cardboard box for all i care. But it's the way in which so many keepers are satisfied with providing just the bare minimum. This is my opinion, and nothing for you to be offended by, this is what i don't understand about so many reptile keepers you all get worked up so easily.

We have a voice and an opinion for a reason, to voice it.

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Crot the species have evolved as domesticated animals. They are still wild in true nature, but domesticated by selection. We do our best to accomodate their needs using tubs. So yes, Royal Pythons have evolved through domestication to live on news paper, how about that!

Oh really now? Do you understand the word evolved?

e·volve 1. a. To develop or achieve gradually: evolve a style of one's own.
b. To work (something) out; devise: "the schemes he evolved to line his purse" (S.J. Perelman).

2. Biology To develop (a characteristic) by evolutionary processes.
3. To give off; emit.

Tell me how these ball pythons you have, have done any of what the definition of the word suggests? Maybe they've developed reading glasses to read the newspaper!!