Where are the deserts?

[Dragoon]

I just read a very interesting bit that was posted on the Reptile Report (can't remember which forum it originated on). Someone had a female desert that, of course, became egg bound, so he got snapshots of the surgery to remove the eggs.

Bush league breeders club
http://thereptilereport.com/amazing-desert-surgery/

[rabernet]

Bush league breeders club
http://thereptilereport.com/amazing-desert-surgery/

Yup, that's at the end of the thread I posted above.


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[MarkS]

I just read a very interesting bit that was posted on the Reptile Report (can't remember which forum it originated on). Someone had a female desert that, of course, became egg bound, so he got snapshots of the surgery to remove the eggs. As it turns out, she had extremely tight strictures in her ovaducts, and that's what prevented the eggs from passing. They could not be manipulated out, surgery was the only option. Said they couldn't even fit a catheter through the strictures.

So, NO, this is not a matter of breeding deserts that are too small. It is not going to magically resolve itself if you change the temperatures, or the feeding schedule, or whatever. These female deserts have physical defects in their ovaducts, and that is why they are dying.

The infertility problem is probably in addition to that, not caused by it, as obviously not all female deserts die right away, and they are able to pass some slugs, so some of their ovaducts don't have strictures.

good stuff to know, nearly all pictures I've seen of eggs coming from deserts had streaks that looked like blood on them so I figured it was something that was tearing up their insides, thats also probably why they die. I don't see that as something that will magically go away once they get bigger.

[Serpent_Nirvana]

The other interesting point that this surgery brings up (huge thanks to AMCRoyals whose animal it was and who posted the whole story on BLBC) is that this is also something that won't resolve with hormone therapy, which was, in my mind, the last faint hope that Desert females ever had of being even somewhat reproductively viable. While it does seem a bit like a "chicken or the egg" question (did she form strictures because she was being manually manipulated to try to pass the slugs, or did she fail to pass the slugs because she already had the strictures?) I suspect it's the latter -- that the strictures are a component of this syndrome of reproductive failure that the females of this morph seem to exhibit.

I fear that right now, I fall into the same camp as Rabernet -- I think they are absolutely gorgeous, but I wouldn't want to risk putting animals in the population that had that high a likelihood of dying of dystocia after she changes hands six or seven times (as Ball Pythons are wont to do). Perhaps if our community demonstrates that we are capable of keeping this information as widely distributed as possible and informing every Ball Python newbie we come across (who may well have a pet Desert girl) ... But I am just not counting on that.

Better to avoid buying a Desert now that I don't already have one, than to get one and struggle with the ethics of it ... Like I do with my current spider projects.

I'd still be VERY interested to see histopathology on the full reproductive tract of a Desert female.

[PsychD_Student]

The price will come down with inventory going up. If the desert projects drop off it is less likely the females will hit the low price people would like for a pet. Few produced will keep them scarce and with the female desert news more people don't want males either. Prices will probably hit the lowest they will ever be by the end of the year. If the prices drop very low people may just stop breeding them.

I don't know about that. While the female prices may drop off, the desert gene is an amazing addition to combos. I'm willing to bet many people will be hands off with the desert gene. But with only 25% of the clutch being "valuable" to breeding projects, it may maintain its value-- or, if enough people throw in the towel, the prices could go up if the demand for this gene in morphs stayed the same level as supply went down. The gene is as difficult to produce as recessives are at that 25% probability rate.

[TessadasExotics]

I don't know about that. While the female prices may drop off, the desert gene is an amazing addition to combos. I'm willing to bet many people will be hands off with the desert gene. But with only 25% of the clutch being "valuable" to breeding projects, it may maintain its value-- or, if enough people throw in the towel, the prices could go up if the demand for this gene in morphs stayed the same level as supply went down. The gene is as difficult to produce as recessives are at that 25% probability rate.

The deserts are already taking a plunge. Yeah some people are still trying to get $1500-$2000 for them. They aren't selling to many, if any at all at that price. I have seen pairs recently for as low as 1k and females for $400. The prices will not go back up unless somehow the deformaties/problems are bred out.

[Dragoon]

I still question people who sell desert females as 'ready to breed'

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=334506