Vote for BP.Net for the 2013 Forum of the Year! Click here for more info.

» Site Navigation

» Home
 > FAQ

» Online Users: 3,037

2 members and 3,035 guests
Most users ever online was 6,337, 01-24-2020 at 04:30 AM.

» Today's Birthdays

None

» Stats

Members: 75,031
Threads: 248,489
Posts: 2,568,442
Top Poster: JLC (31,651)
Welcome to our newest member, isismomma
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 48
  1. #11
    BPnet Senior Member kitedemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-01-2010
    Location
    NS Canada
    Posts
    6,062
    Thanks
    657
    Thanked 1,795 Times in 1,391 Posts
    Images: 11
    I have never seen more than one or two degree increase to ambient temp with a RHP as it is a RADIANT heat panel this is not unexpected, UTH is also radiant so how physics applies to one and not the other I have never understood. Unless you place a thermometer in direct line with the panel then it is not air temps but radiant temp and the same as surface temp.

    Neither Radiant heat panels or UTH do much for ambient air temps. Lights however do a HUGE amount. A basic 2 foot fluorescent light will easily lift 10º-14º over room in a PVCx enclosure and a deep blue LED with internally 110 voltage will lift 8-10º over the room temp. This is way cheaper safer and easier. To my mind in a terrestrial enclosure I would use a UTH and light.


    http://www.wisc-online.com/Objects/V...aspx?ID=sce304

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to kitedemon For This Useful Post:

    Gio (11-15-2012)

  3. #12
    BPnet Royalty Gio's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-28-2012
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    4,724
    Thanks
    6,879
    Thanked 6,571 Times in 2,984 Posts

    Cool Re: PVC cage heat with UTH / Radiant Heat Panel or BOTH? Cool room.

    This is interesting to me. I am looking into Animal Plastics or Proline 48 X 24 X 18" or 15" depending on which I go with, for a Colombian boa. One of the makers said a radiant heat panel alone would be fine in a room that gets as cold as 68F at night during the winter. I'm not sure how to look at this thread.

    Currently we have my son's Royal in a 40 gal breed glass tank that I've insulated and covered except the front. I have a UTH and a infrared bulb hooked into a Herpstat II. I have perfect ambient temps and belly temps. I even have to back down the humidity as it hit 90% this morning after I covered the screen with a fresh damp towel.

    Going to a plastic enclosure with a RHP and UTH was the plan, then I was told the right RHP would make the UTH unnecessary. Ideally, I'd like to only have and LED or FLO light for viewing and not hooked up to a Herpstat.

    After reading this I feel like I'm going to have to get back into the "Lights" for ambient temps and I'd rather not. I rarely see plastic type cages with light for heat unless it's the Vision cages so how do people with 1 plastic cage do it? Do I really need to have light cut outs?

    Initially I'd try the RHP and see what I end up with. If that were to fail I'd probably add a UTH, but really don't want to have to use lights for heat.

    Side note: This is all IF my wife ever allows this to happen LOL : ) . I'd still like to hear more info from different people on this.

  4. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    09-25-2012
    Location
    North GA
    Posts
    201
    Thanks
    84
    Thanked 91 Times in 62 Posts
    Images: 2

    Re: PVC cage heat with UTH / Radiant Heat Panel or BOTH? Cool room.

    I've got an AP t8- 4' by 2' by 1', divided into 2 enclosures. I have 11" flexwatt installed in the middle, and 1 40 watt RHP installed on the ceiling of each side toward the middle(over the flexwatt). A herpstat II controls both heat sources. In a room that falls to 60F every night, my hot spot stays around 92F,cold spot 77, and ambients around 80.
    1.0 yellowbelly '11 "Rocco"
    1.0 spider het ghost '12 "Cliff"
    0.1 superpastel '12 "Adelle"
    0.0.1 blue tongued skink "Reggie"
    15 African cichlids
    0.1 french bulldog "Stella"
    1.0 pug "Norman"
    0.2 domestic shorthair cats "cookie dough" and "Shadow"
    60 + bonsai

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to dav4 For This Useful Post:

    Gio (11-15-2012)

  6. #14
    BPnet Veteran 3skulls's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-23-2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,481
    Thanks
    2,110
    Thanked 1,776 Times in 1,184 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by kitedemon View Post
    I have never seen more than one or two degree increase to ambient temp with a RHP as it is a RADIANT heat panel this is not unexpected, UTH is also radiant so how physics applies to one and not the other I have never understood. Unless you place a thermometer in direct line with the panel then it is not air temps but radiant temp and the same as surface temp.

    Neither Radiant heat panels or UTH do much for ambient air temps. Lights however do a HUGE amount. A basic 2 foot fluorescent light will easily lift 10º-14º over room in a PVCx enclosure and a deep blue LED with internally 110 voltage will lift 8-10º over the room temp. This is way cheaper safer and easier. To my mind in a terrestrial enclosure I would use a UTH and light.


    http://www.wisc-online.com/Objects/V...aspx?ID=sce304
    How do you keep the temps up at night when the lights are off?

  7. #15
    BPnet Senior Member kitedemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-01-2010
    Location
    NS Canada
    Posts
    6,062
    Thanks
    657
    Thanked 1,795 Times in 1,391 Posts
    Images: 11
    Deep blue LED lights. They come in two types externally ballast and internally (not sure ballast is the right name) the majority are internal (especially aquarium lights) they run in the high 90s The white FLD lights come on around 8-8pm and the blue run 7pm-9am an hour over lap (I have dimmable FLD so they drop over the hour). The blue lights hold 8-10º F over ambients. The whole set up dimming bulbs and all is less than a RHP and using regular FLD lights would be much less.

    My typical temps 80º surface temp cool and 90º surface hot, stable.
    Ambient temps are the coolest at 4am about 77º
    they gain about 1 degree every hour and a half to two hours until they max at around 84-5º then they start to drop again.

    The problem isn't enough temps but spilling unwanted temps in the summer. During summer I often have the white on in the am and off in the late am to afternoon then on for a few hours again. As the room is light it isn't a huge switch.

    I can't say this for certain but with my 11 royals the ones housed in enclosures (6) feed better than the 5 in the rack. I switch them every 18 months and the feeding habits switch with them. I believe that this is mostly due to the natural shift of ambient air temps in my enclosures over the unchanging ambient and surface temps of the rack. It is just a pet therory but the only difference I can figure. The enclosures animals eat 22% more than the rack animals. It has got to be air temps or light cycle one or the other or both. Not sure it is all guess work.


    Why people seem to think RHP change ambient air temps I cannot fathom. in floor radient heat and in ceiling radient heat is basically the same and yet it always seems keepers believe they are drastically different.

    Reptile basics FAQ on RHPs

    "Infrared Heat tends to heat objects more than the air, much like the natural sunlight outdoors. This type of heat mimics real sunlight both in the direction it comes from and its penetration into the muscle tissue. IR heat has been shown to have a therapeutic effect on sick and injured animals as well. Your reptiles will spend less time basking and receive a much greater benefit from it."
    Royals do not 'bask' and as we all know the sun does not heat up air.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to kitedemon For This Useful Post:

    Gio (11-15-2012)

  9. #16
    BPnet Veteran 3skulls's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-23-2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,481
    Thanks
    2,110
    Thanked 1,776 Times in 1,184 Posts
    I agree that RHP work the same as UTH.
    I couldn't get that link to work but it might be my phone.

    Is there a brand name you use for the blue LEDs?

  10. #17
    BPnet Royalty Gio's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-28-2012
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    4,724
    Thanks
    6,879
    Thanked 6,571 Times in 2,984 Posts

    Re: PVC cage heat with UTH / Radiant Heat Panel or BOTH? Cool room.

    3skulls, I found this and it might be of use to you.

    http://www.reptilebasics.com/led-lighting

    I may end up doing the same.

    Thanks Kitedemon. I am not sure what my plan will be if I ever do the AP PVC enclosure. I'd be doing it for a boa, but I guess I'd still need some lights for ambient temps. Of course everything gets more expensive and the snake is probably only $70-$100.

    Damn this hobby!! LOL!

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Gio For This Useful Post:

    3skulls (11-15-2012)

  12. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    09-25-2012
    Location
    North GA
    Posts
    201
    Thanks
    84
    Thanked 91 Times in 62 Posts
    Images: 2

    Re: PVC cage heat with UTH / Radiant Heat Panel or BOTH? Cool room.

    I think much depends on the set-up. Clearly, the RHPs in my t8 are affecting the ambient temps, and not by just a few degrees. At any moment over the last two weeks, the temp inside the enclosure has been between 10 and 20 degrees F warmer then the temp outside the enclosure. Now, I've got cypress mulch as substrate, along with terra cotta pots as hides. The RHP warms the pot and the mulch below it, which, in turn, transfers some heat to the air...I think the mulch plays a big role here as it has much more surface area in contact with the air then a flat surface would. This, coupled with the limited height of the t8, allows the ambients to stay elevated where they are. My two cents.
    1.0 yellowbelly '11 "Rocco"
    1.0 spider het ghost '12 "Cliff"
    0.1 superpastel '12 "Adelle"
    0.0.1 blue tongued skink "Reggie"
    15 African cichlids
    0.1 french bulldog "Stella"
    1.0 pug "Norman"
    0.2 domestic shorthair cats "cookie dough" and "Shadow"
    60 + bonsai

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to dav4 For This Useful Post:

    Gio (11-15-2012)

  14. #19
    BPnet Veteran arialmt's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-05-2012
    Posts
    427
    Thanks
    456
    Thanked 169 Times in 120 Posts
    Images: 5
    Infrared heat warms objects then those objects affect ambient temps, at least that is the philosophy of the heater I use in my bedroom that is not connected to the house heat. Trust me I stay toasty here in north west Ohio. I don't know how that translates to a mostly empty cage, I use 2 UTH with a dual zone thermostat, and a black incandescent lamp on a dimmer.

    While true the sun does not heat the air, it does heat the ground, which heats the air. Far infrared waves also heat moisture which affects air temps.

    I would definitely plan on 2 heat sources for your enclosure but I personally can't recommend an RPH until I have used one. There are good folks here that use florescent lighting to raise the ambient temp with great success, I would start there.
    This message brought to you by the department of redundancy department.


    0.1 Normal

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to arialmt For This Useful Post:

    kitedemon (11-15-2012)

  16. #20
    BPnet Senior Member kitedemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-01-2010
    Location
    NS Canada
    Posts
    6,062
    Thanks
    657
    Thanked 1,795 Times in 1,391 Posts
    Images: 11

    Re: PVC cage heat with UTH / Radiant Heat Panel or BOTH? Cool room.

    Quote Originally Posted by dav4 View Post
    I think much depends on the set-up. Clearly, the RHPs in my t8 are affecting the ambient temps, and not by just a few degrees. At any moment over the last two weeks, the temp inside the enclosure has been between 10 and 20 degrees F warmer then the temp outside the enclosure. Now, I've got cypress mulch as substrate, along with terra cotta pots as hides. The RHP warms the pot and the mulch below it, which, in turn, transfers some heat to the air...I think the mulch plays a big role here as it has much more surface area in contact with the air then a flat surface would. This, coupled with the limited height of the t8, allows the ambients to stay elevated where they are. My two cents.
    Where is the ambient air temps measured with and location? Typically when people say this they are measuring under the RHP this is not measuring air temps in this case but the surface of the probe being heated by the RHP. To measure then place it at least 6 inches away from the RHP middle height of the enclosure and suspended from the ceiling. The last person whom said exactly this found the with no lights running at all (1 hour after they were shut down) the air temp was 3º over the room about the same as I found in my test enclosure. She found that the lights made the temp difference not the RHP. Try it.

    The thought that placing a UTH on the enclosure and it not heating the air then turning the enclosure up side down and it suddenly heating the air is crazy. This is all a RHP is a carbon element in a box. No different than flexwatt on the bottom of a PVC enclosure if you use ABS enclosures and thin walled it is the same.

    The thing that really is concerning is where is the probe placed. I do not believe a snake should under any circumstances be able to come between a heat source and probe. All my tests the only probe placement that works is dangling from the panel but it is kinda sketchy. I have two RB 40w RHPs one I tested in a 12 inch PVCx enclosure (no snake) for 3 months. When I ran a full power test I hit 150º on the (1/4 inch thick) substrate. This is as hot as my UTH get. Too hot by far. The arboreal set up (26 inches) the floor never gets over 80º there is always escape for the snake from a burn. IMO they should not be used in heights less than 18 inches as they can easily over heat the floor in shorter enclosures.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.1