Curious of next move with Piebald.

[jamie334]

Back in April I purchased an 2010 male Piebald from a breeder. When I got him he was 950 grams. He hasn't eaten since I got him. I try and feed him live, f/t, rats, mice bi-weekely. I contacted the breeder after a couple of vet visits and he said the he would take the snake back. He refunded me the money and told me he would contact me when he is ready for me to ship the snake back. The vet says that there are a few reasons that could lead to the snake not eating. He is currently down to 750 grams. I email the breeder twice a week and have called him with no replies. The last contact I had with him a month ago he said not to try to feed the snake again.

My question is what should be my next move. I don't want to just keep the snake and wait for it to die. I still try to feed it but with no luck. I understand that the breeder may not want it back because of the future vet bill cost. I kinda have my hands tied because technically it isn't my snake since he refunded me the money. My vet suggested that I try force feeding him if he still hasn't eaten in 2 weeks. I don't want to force feed him without the breeders approval but he isn't replying to my calls/emails. What would you guys do? Thanks in advance!

[PweEzy]

What are the reasons the vet said it wasn't eating. I had a male that didn't eat for 13 months, but he is back to chowing down again. Sometimes they just don't want to eat is what i've learned.

[adamfritzsche]

First, I would ensure that my husbandry was all spot on to include the temps, humidity, cage size and a hide. If you are sure everything in that realm is good, I would reccomend finding an ASF to try feeding. I had a ball python that all of a sudden stopped eating. It would appear to be interested in eating, and would sneak up on the rat and then just stay there until the rat moved and spooked it. It was like it was hungry but for some reason did not like the smell of rats. After a month of refusals I tried an ASF and it took it almost immediately, now it is back to eating rats again.

Others might have more experience in this realm though, as luckily I have not had too many issues with eating.

Take it for what it is, but both of my adult pieds are picky as, they are spooked by live prey and will only eat pre-kill or frozen thaw and you have to set it in there and leave it and them alone. They wont eat when anyone is watching or even in the snake room.

[jamie334]

Thanks! Well the reasons given were, stress, fast, and just being particular about the food items. Typical things. 13 months is insane! She said that she didn't consider him in the danger zone yet but she didn't want to see him loose too much more weight. Just curious; What is ASF? And he did just as you described! He would approach the mouse, track it, and the second it moved it would get spooked and lose interest.

[AK907]

ASF = African soft furred rat. Usually a little pricey, but they are like candy for ball pythons. Worth a shot at least.

[mechnut450]

If your close by to delaware ( my fiance and I will be willing ot trave l to meet you and see if we can help you figure out your issues if needed, I got a het pied male that eats at total random he can eat 4 months straight then only want to eat once every 4 months, but he does not lose to much weight but compared to the het female that I have ( that roughly same age) he about 1000 grams less than her. and she given me 2 good clutchs and a bad clutch. IF need can pm me with a cell/text number and I can help you that way and discuss possible fixes ( I got more time on my hands than most on her esince I am disable and somewhat self entertained lol and with 30 ball pythonsI not lost one in the last 15 years.
I had more luck with getting snakes to eat than most people I know. ( 4 in the lastcouple eats eat within 48 hours for me. verus their owners ( long fast)

[Ivan M]

I take it that you have also left the food item dead in the enclosure overnight. Sometimes they will eat it overnight, hopefully things work out with the snake and the breeder. Best of luck with this situation, keep us posted.

[jamie334]

Thanks mechnut! That's really awesome of you. Unfortunately I couldn't live any further from you. I live in the Bay Area in California. I had a pastel that never refused a meal. This guy is giving me problems though. It's good to know that they can go so long without eating and not have many adverse affects. I ill definitely keep everyone posted. Thanks for replying!

[FireStorm]

Here's what I typically do with problem feeders. It's a method that was recommended to me when I purchased a wild caught adult years ago and it has always worked for me. I don't know exactly how you have him set up now (if you are willing to give the details it may be helpful) so you may be doing some of this already.

First of all, I would house him in a tub that is deeper (NOT a bigger footprint) than what is typically used for ball pythons. You want something about 12" deep because we want to put at least 4" of cypress mulch in the bottom. If I was doing this for an adult female, I'd probably use something like Sterilite #1659. I'd set him up with a heat mat, appropriate sized secure (not a log) hide and a decent sized water dish. You want a dish big enough that you don't have to check his water every day.

If I were doing this at my house I'd put the tub in my unused walk in closet, but i don't know what you have available. You want to either
a) keep him in a low traffic area that is dark 24/7
or
b) use something to cover/black out the sides of the tub (still in a low traffic area)
or
c) use a solid colored tub (still in a low traffic area)

So set his tub up, put him in there and leave him alone completely for at least a week. When I do this I use a red light flashlight to check the water so it stays totally dark (most animals can't see red light) and only check the water every 3 days or so (basically as little as possible). Don't handle him or offer him any food for at least a week. I would probably even try 10 days or two weeks, but that's just me.

After leaving him alone for a while, it's time to offer food. Wait til nighttime, and using your red light flashlight in a dark room(don't want to expose him to bright light right when we want to feed) offer him a live weanling rat or similarly sized ASF. Put the prey in the tub, put the lid on, cover it back up if necessary, and go away for at least 15 minutes, maybe even a bit longer. Leave him alone, don't stick around to watch. If he doesn't eat this time, try again after waiting for at least another week.

Offering food biweekly might be part of the problem. IMO that is too often and can stress a problem feeder more. Also, during all this don't take him to the vet. I commend you for taking him to the vet when you felt he needed it, but at this point it seems there's not much the vet can do since nothing is obviously wrong. The trips to the vet could be additional stress.

I'd recommend trying this setup for a while. If it doesn't work, I can walk you through the steps to assist (not force) feed him. If you want to get ahold of me directly, feel free to email me. My email address is swetterstroem@gmail.com and it goes to my phone.

[PiedPeddler]

I'm glad to see you are so diligent and caring. Also glad to see the breeder was so upstanding as to quickly refund you for a snake you are not 100% happy with. I don't know why the breeder isn't being more responsive to you right now, but I think you do not need to worry about the health of the snake or incur any more vet bills. I don't imagine the breeder will incur any vet bills either upon return of the snake. The snake will probably be left undisturbed until it decides to start feeding again. At that point the breeder may choose to do a fecal exam before re-selling just because the animal was out of his collection and control for awhile, but that is his decision. I do not recommend force-feeding or assist-feeding. Most of the weight loss was probably natural emptying of the digestive tract after you received it. It will probably lose weight very slowly from this point on and as others have mentioned, he can go off feed for many more months with little risk of starvation.

It is time for you to relax and stop stressing. Let the snake relax and stop stressing. Send your breeder a reminder e-mail every week or two until he gets around to making arrangements for return of the snake.

-Paul