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  1. #11
    BPnet Lifer OhhWatALoser's Avatar
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    Re: Pictures, websites and copyrights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    The one thing missing is a mention of Fair Use Doctrine. In some very limited cases (news reporting, commentary, education, research) you can use a picture with a copyright. However, before you do, you should research Fair Use.
    This and why no mention of licenses? Most of the time a snake picture is used, I would have to imagine it falling under fair use, which doesn't even require the owner to be mentioned, license you can require your name to stay with the picture and intent of use to be maintained. Much more powerful imo.

  2. #12
    BPnet Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

    This link talks about fair use. There is no mention of a license. I believe licensing is related more so to recordings than pictures. However, if I'm wrong I'm willing to learn.

  3. #13
    BPnet Lifer OhhWatALoser's Avatar
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    Re: Pictures, websites and copyrights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

    This link talks about fair use. There is no mention of a license. I believe licensing is related more so to recordings than pictures. However, if I'm wrong I'm willing to learn.
    licensing can apply to any intellectual property. Hear is the license I list with my website. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

    it says fair rights are not effected but fair rights takes into account the nature of the copyrighted work, which having that license that spells it out give you legal backing. At least it did with a few court cases.

    This kind of stuff is more situational anyways. I mean what type of situation are we trying to protect from?

    Someone using the picture to scam someone? They are committing fraud anyways, we really aren't protecting much. The watermark might stop people, but there are enough pictures out there that they will find one anyways, so your picture wasn't used.... big deal, the crime still is attempted.

    Someone using it on their website? well they will more than likely fall under fair use, who uses a picture not for educational purposes? I guess if they put it on there just as page decoration or claiming it is their animal they would be in violation.

    Is there some situation I'm not seeing?

  4. #14
    BPnet Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    Using it on a website does not fall under fair use. The educational exception is much narrower than that. You can't just grab someone else's pictures and say you are using them for educational purposes. It is more for institutions and professional educators. You have even less legal ground to stand on if you just happen to also sell animals that are the same species as the photographs.

    There has been a rash of people stealing pictures, sometimes stripping off watermarks and passing the photo off as their own. Whenever I see this, I let the owner know that their work has been stolen.

    Those great photos take a lot of time effort and money. Is is unethical and unacceptable that someone else would post it on their website, even when credit is given.

  5. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Don For This Useful Post:

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  6. #15
    BPnet Lifer OhhWatALoser's Avatar
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    Re: Pictures, websites and copyrights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    Using it on a website does not fall under fair use. The educational exception is much narrower than that. You can't just grab someone else's pictures and say you are using them for educational purposes. It is more for institutions and professional educators. You have even less legal ground to stand on if you just happen to also sell animals that are the same species as the photographs.

    There has been a rash of people stealing pictures, sometimes stripping off watermarks and passing the photo off as their own. Whenever I see this, I let the owner know that their work has been stolen.

    Those great photos take a lot of time effort and money. Is is unethical and unacceptable that someone else would post it on their website, even when credit is given.
    how is it not fair use? fair use is not just for select group of people, nor is it narrow at all. I can very well educate people. It is of course for the courts to decide based on the 4 bullet points. But wheres your argument against it?

    I don't see how taking the above picture and saying "this is a pinstripe, picture by Deborah" could be dismissed as education, since that is all it is doing, regardless of me selling other animals like it or not. Again it all about how the person uses it, but that's the scenario I thought the op was implying with the question and answer session. Do I think it's ethical? of course not but the law reads that way from everything I've seen.

    striping watermarks out and/or claiming ownership is an entirely different scenario, with obviously entirely different intentions, possibly involving fraud.

  7. #16
    BPnet Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    It is not fair use to steal someone's photograph and put it on your website and say "this is a pinstripe, picture by Deborah". For one, your website is a commercial website designed to bring traffic to your website for the purposes of selling ball pythons or advertising the fact that you breed ball pythons. The primary purpose of the website is not education, even though one may try to mask that by putting various articles, etc. on their site.

    If you are not a professional educator, being paid to teach, with the website directed at your students, then it will be a very weak legal case that it is posted on your website (which is a commercial website designed to sell or advertise product, in the case ball pythons) for educational purposes. It is also a difficult case to make saying you are engaged in non-profit education by posting the picture on a site where you advertise your business.

    The educational fair use rule was designed for a teacher to take some copies of articles or pictures and distribute them in a class room, not post them on a commercial website.

  8. #17
    BPnet Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    Also, the link below is to a very good article on what to do if someone steals your photos or other copyrighted materials:

    http://lorelle.wordpress.com/2006/04...-your-content/

  9. #18
    BPnet Lifer OhhWatALoser's Avatar
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    Re: Pictures, websites and copyrights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    It is not fair use to steal someone's photograph and put it on your website and say "this is a pinstripe, picture by Deborah". For one, your website is a commercial website designed to bring traffic to your website for the purposes of selling ball pythons or advertising the fact that you breed ball pythons. The primary purpose of the website is not education, even though one may try to mask that by putting various articles, etc. on their site.
    It specifically calls out the use of the copyrighted material, not the primary purpose of the entire website. Otherwise search engines and many other sites could not exist. Rest of the website is irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    If you are not a professional educator, being paid to teach, with the website directed at your students, then it will be a very weak legal case that it is posted on your website (which is a commercial website designed to sell or advertise product, in the case ball pythons) for educational purposes. It is also a difficult case to make saying you are engaged in non-profit education by posting the picture on a site where you advertise your business.
    I disagree here, the copyrighted material was used as stated regardless of other content on other pages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    The educational fair use rule was designed for a teacher to take some copies of articles or pictures and distribute them in a class room, not post them on a commercial website.
    Interpretation of the law is what matters not intention.

    We can go back and forth about this, we both agree ethically and morally, it is wrong to take content without the owner permission. However I don't see the law reading that way 100%. After seeing how a few fair use cases turned out, namely with google image search, I could easily see someone putting a picture in an article and it being deemed fair use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
    2# I want to create my website and I ran across some pictures on the web can I use them on my website?

    No you cannot unless you either have the written permission for the owner or you purchased the picture from websites such as http://www.istockphoto.com , http://www.shutterstock.com, http://www.gettyimages.com which allow you to buy and royalty free images that can be used on your website (rules still apply on how the image can be used)

    3# Can I post someone else’s picture on my website if I give them full credit?

    No you cannot even with full credit it is still not enough, a written permission allowing you to use the picture(s) should be obtained from the original copyright owner.
    Regardless of my opinion, making the above blanket statements are wrong because there are fair use laws. Since this a sticky, it should mention the laws in some way. If content falls under fair use is highly variable, but the laws are still there.

    maybe just add a * and add a foot note that says something like fair use laws still apply with a link to some fair use information.

    Also I looked more into my original statement, licensing is a great defense because one of the reasons fair use laws were created was so people could use content that did not have an obtainable license. Give them a means to use it and they still don't play along... start of a strong defense.

    also that is a great link. I had to eventually go to someone host once to have them shut down.... put a fancy shell around one of my scripts for a game and then sell it, when I'm giving it out for free with a non commercial licence.... not gonna fly. Was very easy, I didn't have to make a formal CaDO. State your case to the host along with emails that were sent between you and the other person, gone in a couple days.

  10. #19
    BPnet Senior Member WingedWolfPsion's Avatar
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    Someone mentioned the Creative Commons license, and I think it's very important to bring this up.

    There ARE images on the net available for your free use. Some of them are public domain because their author has released them into the public domain. Some of them are licensed using a Creative Commons or GNU free documentation license, and can be used for any purpose so long as you attribute them as the author specifies.

    Wikimedia Commons specializes in images that you can freely use. Most licenses even specify that you can modify the images, so long as you retain the attribution, and most allow commercial use.

    Here's more information about the licenses:
    http://creativecommons.org/licenses/

    Here's an example of a common license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/

    Notice that this license specifically states the work can be used for commercial purposes.

    So, it is not always necessary to receive written permission to use an image, IF it is licensed with the appropriate CC license. Note that not all CC licenses allow commercial use, so read over the license before you use the image. Also be sure you have attributed it correctly.

    You absolutely cannot just yoink an image from the web, and use it on your site. That is not fair use, it's copyright infringement.

    It's also unnecessary. There are images available that you CAN legally use. They may not be as gorgeous, but few gorgeous photos are free. The equipment to create them was VERY VERY expensive, the skills learned that enabled the photographer to produce them were hard won, and that artist deserves to be compensated for all that they have put into creating the work.
    Respect that, and don't steal images. Simple.
    Last edited by WingedWolfPsion; 05-22-2012 at 01:12 AM.
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  12. #20
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    I made that mistake once and won't repeat the same mistake twice. If your going to use pictures that belong to some else, regardless of what laws govern their use you should ask before you assume it's ok.. My personal experience is that no matter how in innocent your intentions may be, without propped permission your in for a lose lose battle!! Definately not worth a bad rep.
    Last edited by HCC MORPHS; 05-23-2012 at 10:43 PM.

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