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  1. #1
    Registered User Manasha-Bogo's Avatar
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    Need advice about heating a 4' wide tank

    I have a divided 75g tank/vivarium to heat. The bottom is glass and 18"x48". I'm buying 2' of 11" flex watt and putting this in the center of the tank. Will likely need to be cut down to 16" to make it 1/3 the length of the tank. But I want to test it at a full 2' length first because the tank is going to be directly under an AC vent (altho the vent not pointed at the tank).

    Anyway, I know I'm going to need two misters (one for each side) because maintaining humidity isn't going to be easy.

    So here's my questions.

    I was originally going to put the single piece of flexwatt in the middle (under the tank) and control it with a single thermostat for both halves, but since the tank will be split in half (with plexiglass) should I split the flexwatt and control them separately?

    And knowing the above, what thermostat/humidistat would be the best to handle all of this? (two heaters, two misters)

    I've looked at hygrotherm and herpstat 2 & 4. Two hygrotherms would be cheaper than a single herpstat4. But is there some advantage over getting a herpstat4 that's worth the $250 difference? I do want a solution that will last for many years. Are they both as good quality?

    How far away from a wooden stand should the tank be to prevent this from becoming a fire hazard? I've read about someone taping styrofoam against the flexwatt underneath. Is that not dangerous??

    Aaand finally. Is there something I can put between the tank and wooden stand to fireproof the stand?

    Thanks!!


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  2. #2
    Registered User Manasha-Bogo's Avatar
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    Oh the hygrotherm has a single sensor doesn't it. . That's not gonna work.


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  3. #3
    BPnet Lifer MrLang's Avatar
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    I don't agree with your choice of enclosure, and based on this thread it sounds like you've chosen to ignore a lot of advice. Also based on the previous thread, I don't think you're changing your mind. For the sake of your animals doing best with what they've got:

    1. I do not believe misters are advisable or necessary for a ball python. There are a number of other ways you can go about raising the humidity, so I'd see what the humidity is at with the final enclosure before you pick a way to raise it. My humidity literally stays at 35-40% in my room and my snakes have perfect sheds. I rotate in humid hides when I see their belly go pink and remove it after they shed. There are lots of threads here about them.

    2. If you place a 2 foot segment of tape in the middle of 48 inches, there is only a foot of unheated space in each tank. That's not good. What is the ambient temp. of the room or tank and how do you maintain that? The flexwatt is NOT good at raising ambient temps and the snakes only really sit directly on the tape when they're digesting.

    3. I'm sure someone will post about the thermostats, but I use a Vivarium Electronics VE-200. I believe this is more than reliable enough. I also use a $25 dollar HydroFarm thermostat set 5 degrees higher than my VE-200 as a failsafe. The stat fails and the hot spot goes unregulated-> hits 5 degrees higher and the other stat kicks in until I notice the problem.

    4. The corners of the tank need to be raised to allow airflow under the tank and so the cord to the flexwatt doesn't get pinched. If properly regulated, the flexwatt won't get much hotter than your hand, so the odds of it spontaneously igniting the stand are low. That said, for safety, I'm sure there is a product you can use to make it safer. Styrofoam sounds like a bad idea.
    Dreamtime Exotics -- Check it out!
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  5. #4
    BPnet Veteran BPLuvr's Avatar
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    Re: Need advice about heating a 4' wide tank

    I agree with MrLang. Currently my BP is in a glass tank 36x12x18. The screen top is covered by foil for all but maybe 4-6 inches on the hot side. I bought a repti fogger for misting which was a waste. I thought it would help with humidity but it's useless when it's on it's lowest setting the side it enters spikes the humidity drastically before doing anything to the other side. I have a 8x12 UTH for the hot side. Since the tank is so tall I have a 60w IR heat lamp which runs all the time and maintains 89-92 ambient on the hot side. I have a 100w ceramic heat emitter in the center which is on a thermostat and warms the middle and cool side to 77-80. When the room temperature rises above 75 then the 60W IR is eliminated and only the ceramic is enough to maintain the tank. Humidity is done through a spray bottle a few times a day for the time being.

    Now I just finished a 3 tub rack utilizing 4" flex watt. The tubs is about 22x16x7. This is a small enclosure and while testing it out the hot side hit 90 and the cool side raised about 1 degree above ambient if that. I am currently searching online for a room heater before the final set up and the BP is transferred over. Mind you this tub is fully enclosed and the flex watt did nothing for the cool side. As for humidity I had reptibark so added some cypress (apparently waaaaay too much) Humidity hit 99% so the substrate needs to be re-worked too.

    As for the A/C vent I would close it off and cover it if possible. Remember cold air drops. A good residential A/C system drops the temperature 15-20 degrees. That means if your home is 72 the air coming out would be 57-62 degrees.

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  7. #5
    BPnet Senior Member Slim's Avatar
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    Please abandon the idea of using this monstrosity of a tank. It is utterly ill suited for ball pythons. Either trade your BPs for a really nice corn snake, or PM me your info and I'll mail you the $25 you just can't seem to bring yourself to spend on a couple of proper tubs.

    I'm not even kidding about paying for your tubs. Hell, I'll have them drop shipped from Target. Just PM me your address. This tank idea is a train wreck waiting to happen.

    EDIT: I've repeatedly watched you ignore good advise. Will you ignore an offer made it good faith as well? Think of the children (snakes).
    Last edited by Slim; 04-29-2012 at 11:16 AM.
    Thomas "Slim" Whitman
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  9. #6
    Registered User Manasha-Bogo's Avatar
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    I don't have time for a long response right now but thank you for the responses.

    Just wanted to say real quick that I thought the humidity needed to be higher than 30%. The humidity in a 55g without divider or foil treated screen top at my house right now is 35% on the hot side. If a mister is a waste and no good, then great. I didn't want to have to use them anyway. But I want to make sure humidity is perfect at all times.

    I chose flexwatt because it can be cut down from 2' to whatever the length I need to have the proper warm side, cool side.

    If flexiwatt can't help ambient temp, is there another UTH that can? Or do I have no choice but to use heat lamp?

    The overhead lights I built for my planted tank has 4 bulbs. The front 2 are controlled separately from the back 2. Do heat bulbs only come in screw-in form?

    I've only explained plans for heating here not anything else. Yes I am choosing to stick with the glass enclosure despite advice to use plastic tubs. But that doesn't mean I'm ignoring the needs of the snakes. I'm going to try to make this work but if at the end of the day I see that temps, humidity, etc, are not suitable, then I will ditch it all and go back to the drawing board.

    I won't make my snakes stay in dangerous situations while I work on this, trust me. They are both being well taken care of now with good temps.

    I just want to discuss heating and thermostats right now.

    I haven't read the second response completely. I'll come back later.

    Thx.
    -T


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  10. #7
    Registered User Manasha-Bogo's Avatar
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    Hey slim, just saw your response. Can you or someone give me a good reason why a glass tank divided, with walls covered except for the front with good temps and humidity is still so frowned upon? Sorry that I seem so stubborn about this. I just haven't heard a god argument against it that would convince me that plastic is better than glass. All other things being equal.

    If I heard a compelling argument, I would ditch my tank in a heartbeat.




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  11. #8
    BPnet Senior Member Slim's Avatar
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    Re: Need advice about heating a 4' wide tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo View Post
    If I heard a compelling argument, I would ditch my tank in a heartbeat.
    While I have my doubts about this statement, here goes nothing...

    Glass tanks are notoriously hard to maintain a proper temp gradient in without killing the humidity...and that's in a 20 gallon long. In a tall tank like a 75 gallon you have a better chance of successfully breeding female Desert ball pythons. Your snakes will not take advantage of that tank height, and the extra volume that you will have to heat and keep humid will create no end of problems. Something will always be out of balance.

    To create the heat you need you will have to use some type of UTH on a thermostat. This is for the belly heat your snakes need. However, no matter what type of UTH you choose, it will not affect the ambient temp in the tank. Sooooo, you'll find yourself using heat lamps or a CHE to keep the proper ambient temp gradient. Both of which kill your humidity.

    At this point you have decent temps and crap for humidity. Sooooo, you start trying to find a way to raise the humidity. You try bottle misting, covering part of the top of the tank, 17 different substrates, wet towels over the top, an automatic misting system and gawd knows what else. But the fundamental reality of it is that you are heating and humidifying TOO MUCH VOLUME in the tank.

    But let's say you get the heat and humidity to balance out through some miracle of man and science...now it's time to clean the tank. The 75 GALLON TANK...the one that weighs slightly less than a 1972 Volkswagen SuperBeetle. You have to take everything out, completely scrub every silicone gooped nook and cranny...Then start the whole heat / humidity balancing process over again. And let's not forget that the primary passangers on this Heat & Humidity Roller Coaster that the cool kids call, "It's A Small RI After All", will be your snakes.

    And, in the end, when it’s all said and done, your ball pythons still won’t be display snakes, and would still have a much better chance of thriving in a simple RubberMade tub set-up from Target.

    So, I've shown you mine, now show me yours. What is your compelling argument for putting your snakes in this inappropriate enclosure?
    Last edited by Slim; 04-29-2012 at 12:02 PM.
    Thomas "Slim" Whitman
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  13. #9
    Registered User Manasha-Bogo's Avatar
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    Gotcha. I still want something with a glass front. Are there Vivs out there that are good for balls but still have a glass front?


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  14. #10
    BPnet Senior Member Slim's Avatar
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    PVC Cages from Animal Plastics. Do a search. Lots of info on this Forum about them.
    Thomas "Slim" Whitman
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