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  1. #1
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    Failed live feeding (rat got smart)

    My ball python is about 180-200mg and has been eating live young rats every week consistently for the 6 weeks I've had him. This week I got a rat hopper and didn't notice it was a little bigger than usual but didn't look too big for my ball python.

    I live feed inside of the enclosure and my enclosure has two hides, a hallowed log underpass, and fake vines. I scent the room first and then let the rat out in the cage.

    Usually the feeds go quickly. Unsuspecting rat sniffs around, meanders into the python's area, gets taken out. For this one, which I tried last night, my python struck but missed. The rat now knows this is a predator. So it actually went to the other side of the cage and made a barrier with the substrate. I took out most of the objects in the cage and the python tried multiple times to go after the rat and had it in a curl once, but the rat got out. The python came inches from the rat some time after this and turned away, so I'm wondering at this point if its wary of the rat. Python went into its hide and I took the rat out.

    I've read here that in-cage feedings are best. So how should this work when you have a busy cage (which is 'busy' because I thought pythons feel safer/more comfortable with a lot of cover)? Should I be sticking to really small rats that are less mobile like fuzzies and offering multiple of them?

    I still have the hopper. Would trying again later today be too soon? Any advice on how to avoid this in the future? I know ball pythons sometimes don't eat just as their nature but this wasn't a lack of interest, just failed multiple attempts.
    Last edited by MedicalAuthor; 09-08-2022 at 12:55 PM.

  2. #2
    BPnet Lifer Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Failed live feeding (rat got smart)

    Hello, I think the python went into his hide knowing it’s a secure place for him to launch his attack. These reptiles know how to kill straight out of the egg. They certainly don’t need help from us to get the kill accomplished. They have been killing rodents and birds ever since the beginning of their times in existence. I would really consider getting him on f/t for the future. But yeah, consider housing the rat until tomorrow night then place the rat in for feeding.
    Last edited by Albert Clark; 09-08-2022 at 03:16 PM.
    Stay in peace and not pieces.

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  4. #3
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    BPs are ambush-predators, so usually they prefer to attack from a protected "hiding place"- they don't actively hunt their prey.

    When the rat got away from your snake, it might be because it managed to bite the snake & the snake loosened its grip- rats with eyes open can fight back, & they learn quickly to bite hard in self-defense. I'd get your snake on pre-killed rodents for the safety of your snake & for the humane treatment of the domestic rats (which are intelligent affectionate pets, in case you didn't know). The more times the rat gets away, the harder it's going to fight back ("experience" helps), & it's more likely to hurt your snake.

    Rats have thick fur + skin that's a little loose, & they can squirm around to bite the snake, even if they lose the battle, & those bites can get infected & may even need medical intervention- so feeding dead prey is really for the best. Snakes may accept fresh-killed better at first until they learn, but f/t (frozen-thawed) can be warmed & wiggled just right from tongs so that most hungry snakes will grab & eat.
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  6. #4
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    I had pet mice as a kid and am a big pet person. It is a little weird feeding fellow mammals to a reptile but at the same time it's nature and an exciting aspect I was hoping to (responsibly) enjoy with the python.

    That said, if the feeding fails today, anyone raised a former feeder rat as a pet? This a bad idea for any reason?

  7. #5
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    Re: Failed live feeding (rat got smart)

    When I raised my own feeders, I always tried to find the smartest and most friendly rats pet homes. I've also had feeder mice as pets. Either makes a good pet. Just want to add my support to the above comments; Feeding f/t is much, much safer for your snake. Even a young rodent can fight back when its life depends on it, and your snake is only going to get bigger, and need larger, more dangerous prey.
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  9. #6
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    Re: Failed live feeding (rat got smart)

    Quote Originally Posted by MedicalAuthor View Post
    I had pet mice as a kid and am a big pet person. It is a little weird feeding fellow mammals to a reptile but at the same time it's nature and an exciting aspect I was hoping to (responsibly) enjoy with the python.

    That said, if the feeding fails today, anyone raised a former feeder rat as a pet? This a bad idea for any reason?
    You wouldn't be the first to keep a "feeder" rodent as a pet once rejected by your snake- (many of them are named "Lucky"- ) BUT, remember that trace amounts of rodent scent on your person or on your clothing may get you a bite from your snake if you aren't really careful- showering & change of clothes between handling them is a good precaution. Your snake will also likely know there is a pet rat in the house, but will probably learn to ignore that after a while, & only get pumped up when it's nearby. (A live pet rat might actually HELP your snake accept f/t, actually.)

    When you do it right, it's just as exciting to feed pre-killed rodents to most snakes as to feed live- most snakes still grab with enthusiasm, though there are some that instead prefer to "drop-feed".
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
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  11. #7
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    I have a fussy male BP that refused frozen thaw for a long time.
    So when he would start his fasts sometimes I would end up with a feeder rat and no where for it to go. Most of my pet rats were feeders. There's honestly very little difference between most feeder rats and 'fancy' rats unless you find a show breeder. It boils down to how they're raised.

    A very young rat like that is pretty easy to train. They can be very food motivated. Some potty train to pee in a litter box. Poop sometimes still gets left wherever.
    My last failed feeder rat knew his name. He would take your finger and lead you back to his bed for snuggle time if he didn't want outside time. And my partner's favorite was holding his arms out so the ratty would run across his shoulders and to his other arm for treats.

    They can still just be super affectionate if you don't have time for dedicated training.
    Pretty much all rats do sadly carry a specific strain of micoplasma. So they are prone to respiratory infections when it acts up. Keeping a clean, draft free habitat and not using harsh chemicals nearby is best. Sometimes you can still end up with a quickly developing pneumonia though and that's what can be difficult.

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  13. #8
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    I'm pretty new at this, but I never had a failed feeding. Before offering it, I would keep the rodent in a plastic tub with air holes, a hide, a tube, water, and some morsels of food to make the rodent comfortable. I would then coax the rodent into the snake enclosure and watch until it got too close and was struck and wrapped. I'd stand by as it happened and would put the tongs in the rodent's mouth until it died so it couldn't bite my snake even if it had the right angle to do so. If I couldn't see the rodent's head, I would move the snake so I could see it.

    If you want to try again with the hopper, maybe try getting it comfortable, relaxed, and fed before offering it again. I wouldn't though. I imagine that it was a traumatic enough experience for it to know that seeing the enclosure and the snake means mortal danger.

    Maybe the store you got it from would take the rodent back for credit? My local store offered to in case my BP ever declined to eat a live prey. I have no interest in a pet rat or mouse, so I definitely would've taken them up on the offer if I ever needed to.

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    Re: Failed live feeding (rat got smart)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptic View Post
    I'm pretty new at this, but I never had a failed feeding. Before offering it, I would keep the rodent in a plastic tub with air holes, a hide, a tube, water, and some morsels of food to make the rodent comfortable. I would then coax the rodent into the snake enclosure and watch until it got too close and was struck and wrapped. I'd stand by as it happened and would put the tongs in the rodent's mouth until it died so it couldn't bite my snake even if it had the right angle to do so. If I couldn't see the rodent's head, I would move the snake so I could see it.

    If you want to try again with the hopper, maybe try getting it comfortable, relaxed, and fed before offering it again. I wouldn't though. I imagine that it was a traumatic enough experience for it to know that seeing the enclosure and the snake means mortal danger.

    Maybe the store you got it from would take the rodent back for credit? My local store offered to in case my BP ever declined to eat a live prey. I have no interest in a pet rat or mouse, so I definitely would've taken them up on the offer if I ever needed to.
    for staying right there to make sure your snake safely takes the rodent. I've done similar things, as needed.

    I don't think it's common to have a pet store that takes back live feeders, nor should they IMO. The rodent was exposed to a snake, & could come back with pathogens or parasites from the snake to give to the next one or to the other rodents, so it's a risk for the store. The pet store might take it back for free though, & keep it separate to quickly pass it along to store personnel or friends.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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    So, update:

    • Lucky is now pet Lucky and has a three-story cage (Merry manor)
    • I thought Lucky was a boy, got her a boy cage mate from the pet store feeder bin (tried to look for a rescue/breeder but found none). Albino rat now named Snowy
    • After seeing Snowy's package, I realize Lucky is a girl
    • Now I have a girl and boy rat, both named, with nowhere to 'return' them without basically signing their death warrant. So I'm looking for a home for them. Harder than it looks.


    This may be a cruel option but if Lucky does end up pregnant I wonder if the pet store would take her back and keep her alive as a feeder mom. That sounds horrible thinking about it but it feels like doing nothing means soon I'll have a bunch of baby rats.

    In other news, my snake just successfully shed. Maybe that also played into why he didn't properly take Lucky in the first palce.

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