Federal snake ban has reptile dealers fuming

[ER12]

http://www.eagletribune.com/newhamps...dealers-fuming

[evan385]

http://www.eagletribune.com/newhamps...dealers-fuming

We all need to donate as much as we can afford to USARK! A petition, as stated by Skiploder, will do NOTHING. The only way we can hope to overturn this ban is by helping USARK to raise 150k and file a federal lawsuit against the USFWS!

[snake lab]

Does anyone not get it? If the usark is trying to raise 150k to file a federal lawsuit against an organization like the hsus which has a net worth of over 170 million its juet not plausible to think much is going to get accomplished. All they have to do is tie it up in courts for years or until usark goes bankrupt. Just because an organization is created and taking donations doesnt mean anything is able to be done. Instead of sending donations so that one voice can be heard why not have thousands of voices be heard. Strength in numbers.

[evan385]

Does anyone not get it? If the usark is trying to raise 150k to file a federal lawsuit against an organization like the hsus which has a net worth of over 170 million its juet not plausible to think much is going to get accomplished. All they have to do is tie it up in courts for years or until usark goes bankrupt. Just because an organization is created and taking donations doesnt mean anything is able to be done. Instead of sending donations so that one voice can be heard why not have thousands of voices be heard. Strength in numbers.

You have a point. Thank you.

[Skiploder]

Does anyone not get it? If the usark is trying to raise 150k to file a federal lawsuit against an organization like the hsus which has a net worth of over 170 million its juet not plausible to think much is going to get accomplished. All they have to do is tie it up in courts for years or until usark goes bankrupt. Just because an organization is created and taking donations doesnt mean anything is able to be done. Instead of sending donations so that one voice can be heard why not have thousands of voices be heard. Strength in numbers.

Again, we need to go over the facts.

If USARK decides to go ahead with a lawsuit, it will be against the Federal Government. Not the HSUS. Again, the lawsuit will be nothing more than challenging the basis for the rule change. There is nothing to "tie-up up in the courts".

The HSUS did not enact the rule change the USFWS did.

Your petitions are worthless. This was not voted on, this was not a bill. It was a unilateral rule change. It can only be overturned in two specific ways.

Those are facts. You all need to understand what you are fighting before you rush out of the barn with your pitchforks and your torches.

Will a lawsuit be successful? It better be. Go do your homework and find out what happens if you sue the Feds and lose. Is it winnable? Well, more homework for you all to do before you start sending in the kid's college funds to USARK.

BTW: 25,000 voices out of 7 million is pathetic. It is laughable and it is embarrassing. It does nothing but show the opposition what a fractured and feeble group we really are. Especially when a petition does diddly over squat in this situation.

But hey, if it makes you all feel better to make meaningless gestures, who am I to stand in the way of a your group colonic?

[snake lab]

I understand what you are saying about it would be a lawsuit against the federal govt. If you dont think for a second that the hsus bankrolled this venture your crazy. A win in federal court would be a win against the hsus. No pitchforks here. I have been involved with the dc federal court on many lawsuits as a fraud investigator in the commercial insurance industry. I know not the same thing but i have seen my fair share of federal lawsuits and it is not an easy thing without support. In a lawsuit you can point all the fingers to facts that you want but an organization such as hsus (which is directlly involved) will have their bases covered. All im saying is its not just that easy to say im going to sue the govt because they were wrong. They are wrong more then half the time but they are the govt. We are an industry dealing with alot of peoples worst fears. Snakes are not like a dog or a cat. The hsus agenda is clear. They arent going to budge. They are in bed with peta and the usfws. It is clear what they want. They want all the big snakes banned. If they get their way you might as well kiss the reptile industry goodbye. They will never put an ownership ban nationally in place cause what would people do with the animals? Let em go? Kill em? Black market? Who knows. Here is what the stance of the hsus is in case some people dont understand exactly how radical their beliefs are. This is from their site.

The HSUS Recognizes a Step Forward on Exotic Snakes Rule, But Criticizes Obama Administration for Failing to Ban Commerce in Reticulated Pythons and Other Large Constricting Snakes That Dominate Trade

Without Follow-Up Action, Trade Will Shift to Other Species

Interior Secretary Salazar’s announcement banning trade in Burmese pythons is a welcome move, but The Humane Society of the United States is disappointed that the Obama administration dramatically weakened an Interior Department proposal to list nine species of large constrictor snakes as “injurious” under the Lacey Act, which would prohibit importation and interstate movement of these deadly non-native snakes as pets.

Though the original proposal, issued in March 2010, called for a ban in trade of nine species, the administration moved ahead with a trade ban for just four of them – the Indian python (including Burmese python), Northern African python, Southern African python and yellow anaconda. These four species represent only 30 percent of imports of the nine species identified as posing a significant risk to the environment by the U.S. Geological Survey. After dragging its feet for 22 months, the Obama administration ultimately failed to include in its rule reticulated pythons, which have killed more U.S. citizens than any other constrictor snake, boa constrictors, green anaconda, DeSchauensee's anaconda and Beni anaconda.

“This rule was swallowed up in the federal bureaucracy for 22 months, and put through a political meat grinder, leaving us with a severely diminished final action,” said Wayne Pacelle, president and CEO of The HSUS, which was one of dozens of groups pushing for the enactment of the original proposal. “We expect trade to shift to the species omitted from the trade ban, and we can only hope that the Interior Department takes a careful look and revisits the issue.”

Large constrictor snakes have been released or escaped into the environment and have colonized Everglades National Park and other portions of south Florida. The United States has already spent billions of dollars to restore the Everglades, including protection efforts for endangered species, such as the Florida panther. The U.S. Department of Interior expected to spend $100 million in 2011 controlling invasive species, including the pythons breeding wild in Florida.

This original rule proposed by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, and supported by a bipartisan group of congressional leaders, as well as nearly all major Florida newspapers, would have closed a major pathway of introduction and helped prevent the spread of these animals to new areas and the establishment of additional species in areas where constrictor snakes already pose a problem. The HSUS has long advocated for policies to restrict the trade in dangerous wild animals as pets.

Wild animals kept as pets can injure and kill, can spread disease, and the average pet owner cannot provide the sophisticated care needed to maintain these animals in a humane and healthy manner. Though often marketed as low maintenance pets, constrictor snakes can suffer from starvation, dehydration and other symptoms of neglect.

This important rule had been delayed and weakened by the very industry that peddles high-maintenance dangerous predators to unqualified people at flea markets, swap meets and over the Internet. Constrictor snakes have killed 15 people in the United States, including seven children.

According to the U.S. Geological Survey report, imports of large constrictor snakes from 1977 to 2007 were more than 1.1 million, including the following species: • P. sebae - African rock pythons: 32,738 – 2.9 percent • P. molurus - Burmese python: 297,443 – 26.8 percent • B. reticulatus - Reticulated python: 147,485 – 13.3 percent • E. notaeus - Yellow anaconda: 1,968 – 0.2 percent • E. murinus - Green Anaconda: 13,262 – 1.2 percent • B. constrictor - Boa constrictor: 618,872 – 55.7 percent

The White House’s final rule addresses just 30 percent of the problem, while leaving 70 percent unchecked—including reticulated pythons and boa constrictors which represent more than two-thirds of large constrictor snakes in the U.S. trade. The U.S. Geological Survey report also noted that all nine species present ecological risk, concluding the following (emphasis added):

"High-risk species are Burmese pythons, northern and southern African pythons, boa constrictors, and yellow anacondas. High-risk species, if established in this country, put larger portions of the U.S. mainland at risk, constitute a greater ecological threat, or are more common in trade and commerce. Medium-risk species were reticulated python, DeSchauensee’s anaconda, green anaconda, and Beni anaconda. These species constitute lesser threats in these areas, but still are potentially serious threats. Because all nine species share characteristics associated with greater risks, none was found to be low-risk."

[Skiploder]

I understand what you are saying about it would be a lawsuit against the federal govt. If you dont think for a second that the hsus bankrolled this venture your crazy. A win in federal court would be a win against the hsus. No pitchforks here. I have been involved with the dc federal court on many lawsuits as a fraud investigator in the commercial insurance industry. I know not the same thing but i have seen my fair share of federal lawsuits and it is not an easy thing without support. In a lawsuit you can point all the fingers to facts that you want but an organization such as hsus (which is directlly involved) will have their bases covered. All im saying is its not just that easy to say im going to sue the govt because they were wrong. They are wrong more then half the time but they are the govt. We are an industry dealing with alot of peoples worst fears. Snakes are not like a dog or a cat. The hsus agenda is clear. They arent going to budge. They are in bed with peta and the usfws. It is clear what they want. They want all the big snakes banned. If they get their way you might as well kiss the reptile industry goodbye. They will never put an ownership ban nationally in place cause what would people do with the animals? Let em go? Kill em? Black market? Who knows. Here is what the stance of the hsus is in case some people dont understand exactly how radical their beliefs are. This is from their site.

Well, first, despite what is being rumored, the other 5 species will be hit by a future rule change.

A petition still won't change that..........and HSUS still won't be the agency that bankrolls the Feds. The challenge to the rule change will NOT be levied against HSUS but against the USFWS.

The "law suit" will come down to a challenge of the validity of the data that was the basis of the rule change and the procedures followed by the USFWS.

Nothing more, nothing less.

All the rest of this is a waste of energy.

Everyone needs to educate themselves on what happened and what happens when you challenge an amendment or rule change to the Lacey Act.

Between the multiple worthless petition threads, the misinformation being spread about the "ban" and how to challenge it, and the ridiculous claims of some sort of partial victory, our little group looks really, really messed up.

[Giftbearer]

It's possible that a lawsuit won't even be necessary because President Obama could reverse it based on the fact that it was put in place based on faulty statistics, such restrictions are bad for the economy, breeding and selling snakes are a big industry and bring in badly needed revenue, and that the rule won't solve the stated problem in the Everglades.

He said in his State of the Union Address tonight that he doesn't support such government regulation that can be handled by the citizens themselves. He also stated that he supports "American ingenuity". I think snake breeding would fall into that category.

The cost of enforcing such a rule would cost alot of money and have no real benefit, and I really don't think he wants to be associated with something that will hurt this country on so many levels.

This is a Florida issue that got blown way out of proportion, and he'll probably end up pulling the plug on it before any more of the proposed species are added.

[CapeFearConstrictors]

I wouldn't count on the president doing the right thing in this case. Thinking he'll "probably end up pulling the plug on it" is dangerous as it might lead you and others who read this into a false sense of security.

Essentially, if we don't put up a fight, the general population won't know about the problem and it won't matter what Obama does or does not do.

[zeion97]

It's possible that a lawsuit won't even be necessary because President Obama could reverse it based on the fact that it was put in place based on faulty statistics, such restrictions are bad for the economy, breeding and selling snakes are a big industry and bring in badly needed revenue, and that the rule won't solve the stated problem in the Everglades.

He said in his State of the Union Address tonight that he doesn't support such government regulation that can be handled by the citizens themselves. He also stated that he supports "American ingenuity". I think snake breeding would fall into that category.

The cost of enforcing such a rule would cost alot of money and have no real benefit, and I really don't think he wants to be associated with something that will hurt this country on so many levels.

This is a Florida issue that got blown way out of proportion, and he'll probably end up pulling the plug on it before any more of the proposed species are added.

As it was said below.. I highly doubt this... Obama IMO is the worst president ever elected, everyone keeps saying "well Congress won't let him" no, it's not true. He has seen all of these bills that have gone through recently and even this addition to the Lacey act, and can easily do stuff, but sits by, why? He's trying to please the.masses to get another four years...like said.. dictatorship here we come..

The only.thing we can do is educate people on the ban, and spread around the true facts. People need to see the.media lies.. it's all for the ratings..

And remember support the USARK.