Really weird baby...

[Egapal]

I don't know why you assume it starved as the entire time it was alive it ate very well. It didnt thrive enough to make me comfortable keeping it so it was fed off a week ago.

He assumes it was starving because it was much smaller than the litter it was born into. You then gave it to a mother with a smaller litter and that litter outgrew it.

Anyways, the little guy grew for a short period of time but then stopped. His new litter outgrew him and he was then still the same size as his original mothers new litter.

So are you saying that at the time you put it down it was the same size as its mothers next litter? That's insanely slow growth. How could you possibly say "It ate very well". You should have culled it. Rhasputin gave you good advice that you asked for. You ignored it and the ASF suffered as a result.

[EvergladesExotics]

I ignored no advice, I took everyones words into consideration and although some were less than polite I appreciate everyones thoughts. I can say that the ASF ate very well because it did. I suckled as much, if not more than its litter mates and also ate pellets at its leisure. I kept a close eye on this baby and never - not even before it was decided to feed it - did it show ANY evidence of suffering. I did what I felt should have been done in this situation with this particular animal considering the circumstances. Just because I did not do exactly what you wanted me to do with my animal, does not make me wrong.

Also, I dont know how the discussion of breeding this baby got started but from the beginning I made it clear that it was either going to be fed or if someone wanted it as a pet only, that would be a possibility.

[Rhasputin]

I don't know why you assume it starved as the entire time it was alive it ate very well. It didnt thrive enough to make me comfortable keeping it so it was fed off a week ago.

It didn't eat well the whole time it was alive, or it would have grown. . .

[Rhasputin]

I kept a close eye on this baby and never - not even before it was decided to feed it - did it show ANY evidence of suffering.

Your denial is incredible. The photographic evidence is not arguable. The animal was suffering, it was starving and malnourished, and eventually DIED from it.

I can't believe you can still deny that, after you watched it happen, and even showed photos of it.

You made the wrong decision here, and an animal suffered because of it. What worries me most is you don't seem to realize that you made the wrong decision, and I fear that more animals may suffer the same fate if born into your care.

[EvergladesExotics]

Alright, you can say what you like, that is fine. The facts are that it ate very well but did not grow. It did not die of starvation, it died from being fed and i find it rather funny that you try to twist the words to make it seem like it starved to death. Like I have said, there was no suffering for this animal. I have seen puppies born small and stay smaller and thin up until about 4 months old. They ate just fine, but stayed smaller and thinner than the littermates. They all turned out healthy and happy, just a little smaller. This was not a puppy, it was a feeder and after not making as much progress as I had wanted, it was fed. I have had my fair share of fail to thrive babies. They are listless, separated from the group, sometimes abandoned by the mother, cant hold their own with their siblings etc. There was no evidence of that here. No I do not feel I made the wrong decision by letting it have a decent chance to grow being that there was no discomfort for it. Just because something is small doesnt mean it's in pain. And you're right, more ASFs will suffer the fate of being eaten while in my care. Curse on me!

[Egapal]

Alright, you can say what you like, that is fine. The facts are that it ate very well but did not grow. It did not die of starvation, it died from being fed and i find it rather funny that you try to twist the words to make it seem like it starved to death. Like I have said, there was no suffering for this animal. I have seen puppies born small and stay smaller and thin up until about 4 months old. They ate just fine, but stayed smaller and thinner than the littermates. They all turned out healthy and happy, just a little smaller. This was not a puppy, it was a feeder and after not making as much progress as I had wanted, it was fed. I have had my fair share of fail to thrive babies. They are listless, separated from the group, sometimes abandoned by the mother, cant hold their own with their siblings etc. There was no evidence of that here. No I do not feel I made the wrong decision by letting it have a decent chance to grow being that there was no discomfort for it. Just because something is small doesnt mean it's in pain. And you're right, more ASFs will suffer the fate of being eaten while in my care. Curse on me!

You really don't understand starvation. You can be eating and still starve. Weight gain is very very simple. Its a matter of mass in minus mass out equals weight gained. There are only three major ways to lose mass normally. Respirate, urinate, or defecate. Mass does not simply disappear. If the animal was eating most of its food was passing straight through or else it would have gained mass. If the animal was not growing the animal was starving. I understand that you have seen runt puppies. The point is that you had never seen an ASF that looked like that. If you had a puppy that didn't grow to the point that its mother gave birth again and her new pups had reached the same size anyone would tell you that your runt is not just a runt. There is something seriously wrong. You can't compare ASF's to puppies or people. They are very different.

[TheSnakeEye]

Alright, you can say what you like, that is fine. The facts are that it ate very well but did not grow. It did not die of starvation, it died from being fed and i find it rather funny that you try to twist the words to make it seem like it starved to death. Like I have said, there was no suffering for this animal. I have seen puppies born small and stay smaller and thin up until about 4 months old. They ate just fine, but stayed smaller and thinner than the littermates. They all turned out healthy and happy, just a little smaller. This was not a puppy, it was a feeder and after not making as much progress as I had wanted, it was fed. I have had my fair share of fail to thrive babies. They are listless, separated from the group, sometimes abandoned by the mother, cant hold their own with their siblings etc. There was no evidence of that here. No I do not feel I made the wrong decision by letting it have a decent chance to grow being that there was no discomfort for it. Just because something is small doesnt mean it's in pain. And you're right, more ASFs will suffer the fate of being eaten while in my care. Curse on me!

I'm 100% with you on this entire thread, just because ate doesn't mean it HAD to grow. He obviously had a problem (doesn't mean he was suffering) and you tried to save him. It didn't work, so you did what you had to do. I congratulate you for trying to see if he would become normal. Don't let what other people say bother you. Some people think it is ok for them to decided what to do with an animal's life but not ok for us to. They must be animal God's or something

[Rhasputin]

Just because it was eating, doesn't mean it wasn't starving. If it was eating, and not growing that is by definition starving. . . Egapal explained it very clearly.
It WAS NOT GROWING, it's body was STARVING FOR NUTRITION. And it would have DIED no matter what.

It's greatly disturbing to me that you don't understand this.

[reptilegirl07]

Here's a way that might be easier to understand.

If you have a tape worm. You can eat and eat and eat. You won't gain weight, you won't grow.

You will STARVE

BUT you are eating. Your body is starving and you will eventually die of "starvation".

You are "starving" your body of nutrients.

That's probably what happened here. There was something wrong with this baby. He ate and ate and ate, but his body was starved for nutrients because they weren't being absorbed.


You can eat, but still starve.

Using your puppy example.

I rescued my first dog. full of tape worms. He ate 6 cups of food a day. More than he should at his age. 8 lbs (shepherd) pup (very thin).

He DID NOT gain weight. He ATE AND ATE AND ATE.

It took 6 rounds of de-worming to get him to be rid of tape worms. But his body took 2 years to recover. He looked emaciated for 2 years, like he was being starved.

[TheSnakeEye]

Here's a way that might be easier to understand.

If you have a tape worm. You can eat and eat and eat. You won't gain weight, you won't grow.

You will STARVE

BUT you are eating. Your body is starving and you will eventually die of "starvation".

You are "starving" your body of nutrients.

That's probably what happened here. There was something wrong with this baby. He ate and ate and ate, but his body was starved for nutrients because they weren't being absorbed.


You can eat, but still starve.

Using your puppy example.

I rescued my first dog. full of tape worms. He ate 6 cups of food a day. More than he should at his age. 8 lbs (shepherd) pup (very thin).

He DID NOT gain weight. He ATE AND ATE AND ATE.

It took 6 rounds of de-worming to get him to be rid of tape worms. But his body took 2 years to recover. He looked emaciated for 2 years, like he was being starved.

If your dog was born with worms, there's a good chance all his littermates had worms as well... In this case none if Miami's other ASF's looked sick. Not to mention it was born funny looking. Even dog's that are born with worms or develop them young still apear normal physically. I'm sure he got all the nutrients it needed, he just wasn't meant to grow. Same thing with people who have dwarvism, they can eat all they want but they're not growing.

Unfortunately we do not know why this poor little guy was born like that, all we can say is he was sick and after given a second chance, he still couldn't make it. Just because he stopped growing, we can't automatically assume COD was starvation. So unless someone wants to do a biopsy on him, just give it rest already.