Citrus Whiteout Pastels!

[amir]

There seems to be some confusion as to the origin of this morph and the genetics behind it. I have to admit I have been busy breeding and doing shows instead of posting here so I'm going to answer any and all questions for the next week about this and any other morphs developed by me!
Amir

Picture of one of the original Citrus Pastels from 2002

[twistedtails]

I like how you created another thread...You should have just posted on the other thread that was already started on this topic. So, first question. Weren't you working on this project with Clark? That would make these animals both from the same lineage right?

[Emilio]

Looking forward to seeing some of the stuff your working with Amir keep the pictures coming. Glad to see you posting here on Bp.net.

[mc5guy]

Nice. I think I have no question until I read this today :

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=284051

The one for sale looks like your 2002 citrus pastel and he is very beautiful. We just get confused by what Clark said.

[LotsaBalls]

Is a green pastel the same as a het red?

[rjk890]

I don't think there are any questions about the Citrus Pastel itself.
The Citrus Pastel is a very nice line of Pastel.

The questions start when people list them as Citrus Whiteouts, even though they do not carry the "Whiteout" gene.

Looking at this project from the outside, with no dog in the fight, this is how I see it.

The Whiteout gene popped up out of a Citrus Pastel, and it was believed that it was attached to the Citrus Pastel mutation.

However, PowerHouse Reptiles produced a Mojo Whiteout.
Now, Since the Citrus Pastel gene is not carried by the Mojo Whiteout, but the Whiteout gene is, there is no doubt that the "Whiteout" is it's own mutation, and is not attached to the Citrus Pastel.

If a Citrus Pastel does not display the Whiteout gene, it is a Citrus Pastel, but not a "Whiteout."

If that is true, then labeling Citrus Pastels that do not exhibit the Whiteout gene as "Citrus Paste Whiteouts," or "Citrus Whiteouts," is misrepresenting your animals, and maybe even scamming your customers at this point.

Amir,
How many WC Citrus Pastels were used to start the line ?

If it was one male Citrus Pastel, maybe one of the females that were paired with him was actually a "Dinker" that was carrying the Whiteout gene ?
Could it be that a Whiteout in itself is a subtle mutation like a Specter or Whirlwind, and goes unnoticed, but explodes when combined with other mutations like the Citrus Pastel, Mojo, and Calico genes ?

[amir]

Great questions!

First of all I am not working with anyone now nor have I ever worked with anyone in producing my line of Citrus or any other line.
The Citrus pastel was produced here and the Citrus Whiteout was named here first and came from one individual imported female and one imported male pastel.
All Citrus Pastels produced by me and purchased from me have the potential to produce Whiteouts and sibs that are non pastels yet show the hidden gene markers.
As with any product that has value and is sought after there will be counterfeit animals floating around. They did not come from my collection.
Having worked with this gene for over a decade and producing multiple clutches and combos I can say that there is still alot to be understood about the mutation but I do have an advantage when it comes to explaining it.
Citrus Pastel started here and The Whiteout was named here.
Any other questions?
As for the Green Pastel, it is not the same as a Het Red Axanthic. It also started here and was renamed Lace Blackback by Mike Cole who purchased a male from me years ago. It is similar in appearance to a Het Red just like mojave and lesser are similar yet clearly not the same thing.
Hope i have shed some light on the subject.

[dmasio]

Amir can you reply to the allegations made by Joe Capone in the fauna thread?


http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=284051

[Serpent_Nirvana]

Thanks Amir for coming to answer some questions; not sure if it's in response to the flurry on Fauna or the thread I posted here, but since I was curious about this gene I'll take advantage of it either way

You answered a couple of my questions -- I was wondering if any and all citrus pastels floating around from your bloodline have the potential to throw wacky blushy stuff, even if they don't outwardly express the washout trait. It sounds like they do have the potential, but that some citrus pastels are "just" pastels, and there can sometimes be no way to tell if they have the "washout tweaker" gene or not -- is that correct?

To me that's starting to sound quite a bit like the fader gene, which appears to have been separated from the pastel gene (I'm making this assumption just based on looking at the fader stuff that's for sale on NERD's site, which includes non-pastel faders and pastels that are possible fader). Do you think these (your tweeker gene and the fader) are likely the same thing?

Are there any "markers" that you look for (that you feel like sharing ) to distinguish a regular pastel from the Citrus line from a Citrus "whiteout" pastel, with the washout gene?

Are there any genes that the "washout" consistently interacts with (since it seems to only interact with the pastel gene on occasion)? For example, could you have a pewter that was hiding the washout gene, or will it always express as a citrus whiteout pewter?

Thanks in advance!

[amir]

Good morning to all!
I am going to keep this on one forum and people can repost it anywhere they want.
There is going to be quite a few pictures posted here in the next few days of Citrus combos and Citrus sibs. I would also like to point out that until Mike Bell , Mark Bailey and some others who bought Citrus pastels and crosses directly from me started making triple combinations there was no reason to get crazy about the mutation. As more and more mutations have been combined with the Citrus the crazy combos have been popping up all over the place. What I am surprised by is that no one person tried to claim that they have made something with my line that is a morph all to itself and can not be replicated. I have known lots of people in this business for the last twenty years. I have sold many animals that have started many powerful genetic lines that have made people Millions of dollars. The Yellowbelly ball came from here. The enchi and the desert used to make the first Tiger came from here. The Puma and Suma came from here. The Citrus and all the crosses made from it started in my collection ten years ago. So if there is an angry customer please let me hear it.
If there are people who bought snakes they are not happy with Please let me hear it. Otherwise enjoy your animals and have a nice day!