What are your thoughts?

[gardenfiend138]

...so...I know one of the reasons I've heard cited before for breeding ball pythons is to reduce the stress on native populations, and on the animals that go through the importation process. Now, I am all for keeping and breeding snakes, but I've been wondering exactly how true those reasons are?
There are still new morphs being discovered and imported, which big breeders pay high prices for (and rightly so), but do you think the "industry" would be sustainable with only the morphs currently available? it seems that if importation was to stop all together, then there would EVENTUALLY be a decrease in the amount of people breeding for money, as there would be a fixed number of morphs, and one of the exciting and dynamic things about ball pythons is that there are still new morphs being discovered...so it almost seems that the industry depends on people catching wild snakes to sell to large exporters who probably pay those who catch them very little money, all in hopes of finding that new killer morph...just a thought that's been in my head and I wanted to get other people's opinions on the importation of ball pythons and other snakes for that matter...thanks for reading this!

[youbeyouibei]

I would be more worried about the lack of depth in the gene pool if importations were to cease entirely, Garden, as opposed to a lack of new morphs being created. My opinion only and I don't know that science would back me up, but with the animals currently available, there are untold numbers of morphs still to be created/discovered just from what is currently available. I think the wild imports just short-cut the process by a few hundred thousand years by introducing new genes as opposed to waiting for nature to take it's course and new morphs to emerge from the crossing of the animals that are currently available.

Interesting topic to raise and I'd be interested to see what other people think about that, as your argument makes sense.

[gardenfiend138]

I totally get where you're coming from, and the lack of genetic diversity is something ive wondered about too, but there are so many here already, that it seems that would take a very long time to have detrimental effects on captive populations. And I was referring more to base morphs as opposed to combinations, as certainly there are vast possibilities in terms of morph crosses, but what if caramel albinos, bananas, champagnes, candy, etc. (the only relatively new morphs I could think of :-/) weren't around?
and I guess too I was hinting at the ethical side of things, as exporters and the whole process seems to invite animal neglect/ abuse... but I do agree, Im very interested in what people think and have to say about this! thank you for replying!

[youbeyouibei]

Absolutely, Garden!

As to the base morph crosses, that is an interesting topic and one I hadn't thought of. Like you said though regarding the genetic diversity eventually (looooooooooong time down the road!) becoming an issue, I think that even with the base morphs as the only options there would take a great deal of time before the "morph options" would eventually be tapped out, so to speak.

I agree to a large extent about the ethics of the wild caught animals and the trade in them, but there are two sides to that coin. A little off topic but bear with me, please, lol!. When Kenya outlawed sport hunting decades ago, the animals were the ones that suffered, as poaching became rampant and several species were brought to the brink of extinction because of it. If animals can "pay their way" by providing a sustainable income for indigenous peoples whether it be through the pet trade or sport hunting/safaris, etc., all the better if it benefits the wild populations through enhanced legal protection via laws and game rangers, etc.

That is not to say that the animals should be exploited and/or the local people exploited to fuel/support the pet trade or sport hunting. I don't mean to come across as heavy handed with my comments and hope I don't with my comments. Historically speaking, SOME animal populations in SOME instances have suffered horrifically because of there being a lack of outside interest, whether it be concerned parties or those with a vested interest, such as pet owners or safari/sport hunters, etc. I dunno...just my thoughts, lol! I'll shut up and go sit in the corner now, lol!

[gardenfiend138]

That's a very interesting point! This is why I wanted to post it here--to get other perspectives and opinions! And I am all for the ways in which our ability to keep exotic animals may benefit certain local communities...I guess I was coming at this from a purely negative perspective, which is why I wanted more viewpoints! I saw a video from peta about a snake wholesaler that really boiled my blood...i guess it's the same as anything, you always hear of the atrocities committed by sub-par groups (whether they be exporters, wholesalers, etc.), but the positive stories rarely become topics of discussion. I thank you for engaging me in this discussion! I wish more people had opinions on this though :-/

[youbeyouibei]

PETA, oh PETA...hahahahahaha! That's an entirely different topic/debate/discussion, Garden, so I'll leave that one be, lol! Thanks for posting the topic and for the discussion, it's been interesting. That would be awesome to hear some other thoughts/perspectives on this...maybe with a few days time you'll hear from other people and get some completely different views.

[lk_holla]

I don't have an issue with some of the bigger breeders importing and creating new and wonderful things, but if I ever get to the point where I'm serious about breeding its not something I would want to do. When I do breed its going to be more for doing something that I enjoy and creating creatures that I've dreamed of, and making a little bit of money is just going to be a side-benefit. I feel like eventually, most morphs will be fairly attainable price-wise, some will just take longer than others. It will just take patience. even if importation stops, genetics are an amazing thing. in the words of forrest gump, its like a box of chocolates: you'll never know what you'll get.

[youbeyouibei]

I second what you said about my reasons for wanting to breed. Some of the morphs out there are simply amazing and to be able to have one, especially after having put in the time and energy to create one from animals you yourself own would be incredible.

I can see both sides of the issue with importation, both the pros and the cons. As to genetics...like they say in Jurassic Park movies, nature will find a way, lol! Hahahahaha! I'm a nerd, I know, but whatever! Still, genetics are quirky, crazy things and not knowing what you'll get is absolutely true, lol!

[gardenfiend138]

hah yes trust me i know where you're coming from with regards to peta, i am in no way an active supporter, and that is but one example, where an employee is discussing feeding a number of fresh imports which kept getting put off, for quite some time, as well as an animal with a broken jaw which the head honcho completely dismissed...and i know this is on the importer side of things, but for example BHB says "conservation through captive propagation", and I am leaning more towards this aspect in the discussion... i almost look at the importation of large numbers as a sort of necessary evil (if one even considers it that) for our hobby... either way, I'm glad we have some new input!