New BP: food refusal & (possible) weight loss

[SheenaCamp]

***This is very long...and I am very sorry***

Hi BP.net!

I just got 3 snakes from a very close friend of mine (for FREE!!! eqip & snakes) a week ago and one if them is an 8yr old normal ball. I don't know the sex of it, but I'm calling it a he because I've named him El Guapo (from 'Three Amigos') because he has significant scarring on him and it makes him sorta ugly-ish. More on the scarring later.

El Guapo hasn't eatten for 4 months and, while this doesn't bother me, it seems that he's lost weight. My friend tells me that she doesn't think he has; she's owned him for 1.5yrs, is an experienced animal owner (does her research) and she used to work at a zoo with reptiles, so I trust her opinion. She rescued him from a "hippie" (her words) who left a med rat in with the snake over night and found the snake almost dead the next day. The rat had attacked it so badly on it's spine (pictures below, the scar stretches almost the entire length of the body), that the "hippie" thought it would die. Apparently after that, the snake has been terrified of rats ever since.

The last time El Guapo ate, it was a live, regular-sized, white mouse. I spoke to a woman at the rep store where I get all my feeders from and she told me to up the heat (it was at 87-88 on the hot side and 82-83 on the cool side and I had ONLY heat lamp). Currently, he's in a 55gal terrarium (though I think it's a regular aquarium), 2 UHT (one small, under the red lamp and a larger one under his hide on the cool side), 90-91 on the warm side and 86-87 on the cool side, large water bowl and a branch for climbing. I know they don't climb much, but it's low to the ground and my other ball loves hers so much, I figured, why not? He only has 1 hide right now and it's on the cool side but I'm pretty sure he doesn't like it since he is NEVER in there. I bought some new hides and I plan to throw one in on the hot side and the other on the cool side (I just need to cut an entry hole in them).

I tired to give him "Roger" (reg mouse, my friend's daughters named him that when El Guapo didn't eat him); he seemed interested and following him around in slow circles in the cage but never gave ANY indication that he was after him for food; and, at one point, El Guapo was under the light when the mouse walked over, made a nest a took a little snooze. (All of this was under my VERY watchful eye.) I attempted to give him a pinky (I had an extra frozen one) and he rubbed his nose all OVER it and hard....but no dice. After an hour, I removed the pinky.

To sum up this long thing, what do you recommend? I have 3 side of the cage now blocked off with dark brown paper and I have tin foil on the screen part of the lid. I don't want to take him to the vet just yet; I want to make sure it's not something I can't fix myself first.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...g/ElGuapo1.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...g/ElGuapo2.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...g/ElGuapo3.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...g/ElGuapo4.jpg

**I tried to get the pictures attached so you wouldn't have to go to a diff page. I'll try to fix it ASAP.**

[blushingball419]

Poor guy! Well, I'm glad he survived the ordeal with the rat, but it's always hard when something like that happens, and they get scarred both physically and psychologically.

First of all, how are you measuring your temps? If you don't have a digital thermometer, I would recommend going out and getting one asap, because if you're using those stick on dial ones, those temps could be off. Second, he definitely needs those 2 hides you were talking about, one on each end, and make sure they are big enough that he can fit into but not huge. They should still be small enough so that he feels secure. Also, there needs to be more of a temperature difference between the warm and cool sides, the warm end is perfect at 90-92, but the cool end should be more like 80-82.

Four months isn't that long for a ball python, especially an 8 year old (of either gender) during the winter season. I would say he's probably still getting over his breeding fast, and just to keep offering every week. He also could still be re-adjusting after being moved from your friend's house to yours. From those pics it definitely looks like he could take a large mouse and maybe a small rat, but if he's afraid of rats then there's not much you can do.

Making sure the temps and humidity are correct, and adding those 2 hides should help too!! Good luck

[SheenaCamp]

Poor guy! Well, I'm glad he survived the ordeal with the rat, but it's always hard when something like that happens, and they get scarred both physically and psychologically.

First of all, how are you measuring your temps? If you don't have a digital thermometer, I would recommend going out and getting one asap, because if you're using those stick on dial ones, those temps could be off. Second, he definitely needs those 2 hides you were talking about, one on each end, and make sure they are big enough that he can fit into but not huge. They should still be small enough so that he feels secure. Also, there needs to be more of a temperature difference between the warm and cool sides, the warm end is perfect at 90-92, but the cool end should be more like 80-82.

Four months isn't that long for a ball python, especially an 8 year old (of either gender) during the winter season. I would say he's probably still getting over his breeding fast, and just to keep offering every week. He also could still be re-adjusting after being moved from your friend's house to yours. From those pics it definitely looks like he could take a large mouse and maybe a small rat, but if he's afraid of rats then there's not much you can do.

Making sure the temps and humidity are correct, and adding those 2 hides should help too!! Good luck

Thank you for responding! I was beginning to think no one would!

I got the 2 hides today (with the holes cut out, courtesy of my co-workers) and all I have to do is wash them. I have the lame stick on temps and I know they're not accurate, it's what I have right now and, after purchasing a new lamp, bulbs (yeah, I had to get a new one for my other bp) and 2 UTH's, I'm pretty much maxed out. I'mgoing to ask the guys at work if they have an extra one for now but, pay day is coming soon and the FIRST thing I'm going to get is an ET.

And thanks for the clarification on the heat; I'd done A LOT of research and found a lot of conflicting answers, so it's nice to hear an opinion from someone and not just a general page on husbandry. Currently, I have a large-ish UTH on the cool side and a small one on the warm side. Should I switch those around? I don't have them stuck to the tank; once I peeled off the white thingy (you know, the thingy), I just stuck washcloths on them. Since I didn't have an ET, I figured it'd be the safest way the snake wouldn't get burned. I would feel so, so, so terrible if he got injured again.

Could you see the folds in his skin? I'm worried more about the (potential) weight loss, then I am about the refusal of food. Again, thank you for helping. I was very worried but I feel better now. I can't thank you enough.

[blushingball419]

No problem at all! Yeah, those temps are probably off then, but he should be fine until you can get a digital thermometer. I know what it's like living from paycheck to paycheck, it can be tough. I also know things are a little more expensive over there on the west coast, but a great place to get a digital thermometer for cheap is either walmart or home depot. You can find a good thermometer/hygrometer for only around $10 at home depot around here, so you could look into that.

Currently, I have a large-ish UTH on the cool side and a small one on the warm side. Should I switch those around? I don't have them stuck to the tank; once I peeled off the white thingy (you know, the thingy), I just stuck washcloths on them.

Yeah, I would say switch them if it's not too much trouble. If you have the funds, I would also suggest getting 2 cheap lamp dimmers at home depot (I believe they're only around $10 a piece too). If that's too much though, you should at least get one to hook up to the cool side UTH so you can turn the temp down, and then get another one or a cheap thermostat when you can. I personally use the hydrofarm one that you can get on amazon for $25, and it works great.

Also, the washcloth isn't a bad idea and I would keep them on until you get dimmers or a thermostat, but you can actually use aluminum foil tape (also found at home depot/walmart haha) to cover the sticky side and to attach it to your tank. It conducts heat very well, and is much easier to remove if you ever have to.

Could you see the folds in his skin? I'm worried more about the (potential) weight loss, then I am about the refusal of food.

Yes, he has some folds, but actually my ball python has those right now as well since she's also on her fast. It is a little underweight, but you don't have to worry until he starts feeling noticeably lighter and getting more of a triangle shape to him. Then you might want to think about bringing him to a vet to have some tests done.

He looks alright to me though. Just keep offering every week, give him the 2 hides, and try to get the temps sorted out! I'll bet you'll find that the temps and the hides were your main problem, and once he finally settles in and decides that he's hungry again, he'll be eating fine. He's obviously been eating alright for several years prior to when you got him, but I know, it's hard not to worry!

Sorry for the long reply, and again, I hope you find some of this helpful!!

[Johan]

Hi,
I personally would turn off the uth on the cold side till you can regulate it with a good thermometer. The hides and such will be great. Just try feeding each week. You may want to tryprekill or even a f/t. Gl

[SheenaCamp]

Hi,
I personally would turn off the uth on the cold side till you can regulate it with a good thermometer. The hides and such will be great. Just try feeding each week. You may want to tryprekill or even a f/t. Gl

Thanks for the idea. I think I'll do that for now. I keep my (studio) apartment around 70 so that may help out in the mean time.

[SheenaCamp]

No problem at all! Yeah, those temps are probably off then, but he should be fine until you can get a digital thermometer. I know what it's like living from paycheck to paycheck, it can be tough. I also know things are a little more expensive over there on the west coast, but a great place to get a digital thermometer for cheap is either walmart or home depot. You can find a good thermometer/hygrometer for only around $10 at home depot around here, so you could look into that.



Yeah, I would say switch them if it's not too much trouble. If you have the funds, I would also suggest getting 2 cheap lamp dimmers at home depot (I believe they're only around $10 a piece too). If that's too much though, you should at least get one to hook up to the cool side UTH so you can turn the temp down, and then get another one or a cheap thermostat when you can. I personally use the hydrofarm one that you can get on amazon for $25, and it works great.

Also, the washcloth isn't a bad idea and I would keep them on until you get dimmers or a thermostat, but you can actually use aluminum foil tape (also found at home depot/walmart haha) to cover the sticky side and to attach it to your tank. It conducts heat very well, and is much easier to remove if you ever have to.



Yes, he has some folds, but actually my ball python has those right now as well since she's also on her fast. It is a little underweight, but you don't have to worry until he starts feeling noticeably lighter and getting more of a triangle shape to him. Then you might want to think about bringing him to a vet to have some tests done.

He looks alright to me though. Just keep offering every week, give him the 2 hides, and try to get the temps sorted out! I'll bet you'll find that the temps and the hides were your main problem, and once he finally settles in and decides that he's hungry again, he'll be eating fine. He's obviously been eating alright for several years prior to when you got him, but I know, it's hard not to worry!

Sorry for the long reply, and again, I hope you find some of this helpful!!

You're the best. I can't thank you ENOUGH! I was seriously losing sleep over the (potential) weight loss but I feel very optimistic about it now.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!!!!!

[blushingball419]

You're very welcome!! Ball pythons definitely know how to make us worry, but I'm sure everything will work out in a week or two.

Also, somehow I missed that the cool side temp was 82-83 without anything except the heat lamp. So in that case, I would also suggest just removing that UTH and then getting a dimmer or thermostat for the warm side one (when you can). Much easier that way! Then all you should need is the digital thermometer/hygrometer, and I'm sure he'll appreciate having 2 hides

[SheenaCamp]

HE ATE!!! HE ATE!!!! I am so excited!!!! I'm sure no one will check this out but I don't care! I am relieved and happy that he ate! I put a thawed and slightly warmed mouse in front of him, covered 75% of the cage with a towel, turned the light off that's near his tank (I live in a studio apt, I don't have much room, so I have a 5-bulbed light behind his cage....for the time being), and turned down the computer. I didn't even hear him strike but the mouse is GONE. I am so happy!!!

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...g/ElGuapo5.jpg

[blushingball419]

Awesome!!! I'm so happy to hear that!!! I know what a relief it can be when they eat. Sounds like he found a great home with you and is finally settling in. Just wondering, did you put the other hide in there yet for him?