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  1. #1
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    Bull, gopher and pine snakes

    Please post your views, opinions and experiences on the following:
    Bull snakes, gopher snakes and pine snakes.
    Photographs would be great too.

    Cheers.

  2. #2
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    Re: Bull, gopher and pine snakes

    I have experience with one northern pine snake. I became interested in them after I saw a post by someone who was a big fan of pituophis in general. I wasn't ready for a larger pituophis and so focused on northern pine snakes. Then a few quality animals showed up at a place near me and I went and checked them out, flipping on the obligatory "I'm not buying today so I am not bringing cash or credit or debit" bit in my brain.

    It only took a few minutes of handling for me to get attached to one. He was 1.5 years old at the time and was exceptionally curious, a bit on the fast side, and also a little pushy, though not in a mean way. Unlike other snakes I had so far (ball python, BCI) he didn't like any sort of a grip when handling him, but only using hands for guiding where he was going.

    He's got a curious mix of attitude while at the same time being very friendly. When I say attitude and pushy, it's not in any sort of alarming way, just perhaps a bit short tempered. For example he wants to explore anything he can see including ordinary things such as walls and door frames. He will start heading that way (going right over my shoulder or face or head if need be) and if I don't let him get there, he will act annoyed by pausing, then gently exhaling and a quiet nasal "hiss" can be heard, as if he is expressing his frustration. Rather like a child crossing his arms and going "Grrr." It's quite funny.

    Feeding response is exceptional. It is up there with my BCI, which is to say it's very strong. This is really the only time I might get bit: during feeding. He is extremely fast and keys in on anything warm and just goes for it. This resulted in the only bite I have ever had from him. He has never even tried to bite me at any other time. Feeding style is fast and in fact voracious, consuming a F/T rat fuzzy as quickly as ten seconds at times. They don't rip apart their food they just swallow it. While eating they will become extremely defensive displaying hissing and tail rattling, and if you get close enough, ramming the side of their body firmly against you. They will eat as much as you will feed them, making it dangerously easy to overfeed them. Mine stays in feeding mode for at least an hour afterwards.

    An aggravated pine snake is both an interesting and amusing thing to see. The first response is hissing which can be incredibly loud: The glottis on a pine snakes is exceptionally large, and in addition to that, they have a vane of cartilage directly in front of the glottis, multiplying the already louder hiss from the larger glottis. The result is an unscientific estimated 400% louder hiss than you would expect from such a sized snake.

    If this doesn't scare you off, they will hiss even louder and begin closed-mouth strikes. Their neck may also puff out a bit although this is very minor. Following that is tail rattling against whatever is nearby, seemingly imitating a rattlesnake. Depending on what the tail is rattling against, this can be pretty convincing. The rest of the time, it creates a rather humorous buzz ( Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBjHE78fyrQ ). At times, as seen in the video, you can get them to do tail buzzing right away.

    I'm told the next stage, which I thankfully have not experienced, is aiming the tail at you and expelling urine/feces directly at you. This is supposed to be the last resort and I haven't actually heard of them doing it to anyone in captivity.

    Cage layout is pretty simple. I don't have the temps with me but you're talking the standard soft of warm side / cool side deal. They don't require abnormally high or low humidity. Northern Pine Snakes are fast and frequent movers, one might even call them hyper. This translates into a slightly larger than expected cage. Right now I am using a 3x3x1 foot cage giving him plenty of floor space. NPSs love to tunnel and burrow, including under objects. Mine spends several hours a day cruising his cage, tunneling, burrowing, digging under items such as his hide and water bowl and so on.

    Since they like all that digging, shredded aspen bedding is a good choice. As such it should be fairly deep throughout the cage; I generally make it about 3 inches deep. They spend a lot of time racing around the edges of their cage, which results in movement of that bedding towards the inside of the cage. This results in a racetrack to the bottom of the cage and that is about four inches wide. With all this racing around and tunneling, the bedding becomes a mess pretty quickly, and as such it becomes a regular activity to fluff out and redistribute all of the bedding in the cage every 1 or 2 days.

    NPSs tend to defecate more frequently than either my ball python or BCI. NPS feces, unlike my other snakes, has a notable and unpleasant odor to it, making it somewhat obvious when it's time to clean up. Though each time is less in amount, it tends to be more of a liquid texture. It almost always ends up in the race track, and then crawled over and then as they climb up the side, it makes a minor a mess. As such it is very important to spot clean almost daily and to wipe the mess off the sides. It also makes sense to toss them in the bathtub every few days to clean them off. This all sounds nasty but it is not a big deal and should not detract away from owning them.

    Because they "go" more frequently, the chances of it happening while you are handling them is higher. I only had this happen once, but it is wise to carry some paper towel ready to go when handling them. It is fairly obvious when it is about to happen: They suddenly stop moving, the tail sharply rises at a 45 degree angle or higher, and it happens a few seconds later. This will usually give you enough time to get the paper towel in the right place. You can get a very good idea of how soon they need to go when first picking them up and looking at their tail, you will see an obvious (more so than other snakes) bulge.

    All three of my snakes (ball python, BCI, NPS) are special to me, however one thing is clear: When I bring all three and show them to people, most of them gravitate to the pine snake. When I ask them about it, in general people find him to be the least threatening and most amusing to interact with, which is amusing when realizing that one of the others is a ball python. Far more people end up handling the pine snake, including those who have never handled a snake, than any of the others. This is very interesting given that at first glance, a pine snake looks like it is angry due to the ridges above its eyes.

    I am very happy that I got a northern pine snake, to the point that I am considering other pituophis in the future. I like the idea of a snake similar to this that is larger.

    Here are some pictures I have of mine: http://fire-eyes.org/gal/v/ob/n/rep/sn/np/1/

    You can also find a few videos at: http://www.youtube.com/fireeyes75

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  4. #3
    Registered User Sammy412's Avatar
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    And now I'm going to put in a word for the gophers.....lol. I have a male sonoran gopher who is right at 5ft. He is so much fun! he also doesn't like to be gripped, but likes to run through my hands and usually settles around my neck and hangs out. Feeding response is spot on. He barely flicks and he's striking. He also hisses at his food....lol. He has never hissed at me nor struck at me, though. I can actually grab his head in my loosely closed fist and he just sits there. He is in a large tub, a little bigger thana 40 breeder tank, with hot spot of 88 degrees and cool spot of 72/73.
    "There is no place I know to compare with pure imagination....

  5. #4
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    fire-eyes

    Thanks for the very comprehensive input.

    Cheers.

  6. #5
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    Re: Bull, gopher and pine snakes

    Been keeping Honduran Milkshakes and kings for several years and I recently got into Bulls (back in October) and I love them.

    I wanted something that would get bigger (in the Colubrid category) so I purchased a few bulls.

    The feeding response I categorize it as: garbage disposal, like the other colubrids I am keeping, they will eat whatever you offer whenever offered.

    Temperament: Very good, yes they all rattle their tail (scary right ) one will take it further hiss like crazy and open her mouth but she is all bluff.

    Maintenance: Like other colubrids very easy and of course they are much more forgiven than BP or Bloods.

    Growth: They are growing very rapidly.

    Pictures:

    Male Albino



    Female Albino



    Female Het Hybino



    Female Red Bull (not very red than but she has grown a lot and she is maturing into a very red individual)



    Love those guys and I am definitely looking forward to get more and breed them when ready.
    Deborah Stewart


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