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  1. #11
    BPnet Veteran anatess's Avatar
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    Re: Incubator vs. Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by Byrdie View Post
    What about substrate just some paper towel or did you actually use something like eco earth?
    All my snakes are on aspen.
    ----------------------------------
    BP owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
    0.1.0 pastel bp
    1.0.0 spider bp
    0.1.0 albino bp
    1.0.0 bumblebee bp
    1.0.0 yellowbelly bp
    0.0.1 normal bp
    1.0.0 normal western hognose


    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

  2. #12
    Registered User LOSTCOAST_BALLZ's Avatar
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    LOL 1st off. "Being a woman, it is always interesting to me that people treat pregnancy as a medical event. It is not. It's just a normal part of the life cycle. Hence, a lot of people prefer the midwife over an OB. The OB is only there when the event becomes a medical concern (complications such as pre-eclampsia, etc.). " your contradicting your self sweetheart. and second of all pregnancy is a tremendous thing to go through regardless of species, AS A MALE i guess i overly respect pregnancy? i dont really know where u were goin with that. one of my points with the racks is, if its so natural why do we keep the animal in a Box or permanent burrow with little to no light. im not here to argue about husbandry just a point. ( I USE RACKS) regardless what is your success rate I hope it was 100% but since u ignored it maybe not? anyways thank you for your valuable info about natural incubation and laying process. my main point being I wouldnt want to loss a valuable egg, especially with the odss being what they are with morph combos, and to clarify im not in it for the money either I just would not want to miss out on a beautiful egg because of a careless error. just my opinion. again thank you for your info on the humidity tub and what not.

  3. #13
    BPnet Veteran anatess's Avatar
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    Re: Incubator vs. Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ View Post
    LOL 1st off. "Being a woman, it is always interesting to me that people treat pregnancy as a medical event. It is not. It's just a normal part of the life cycle. Hence, a lot of people prefer the midwife over an OB. The OB is only there when the event becomes a medical concern (complications such as pre-eclampsia, etc.). " your contradicting your self sweetheart. and second of all pregnancy is a tremendous thing to go through regardless of species, AS A MALE i guess i overly respect pregnancy? i dont really know where u were goin with that. one of my points with the racks is, if its so natural why do we keep the animal in a Box or permanent burrow with little to no light. im not here to argue about husbandry just a point. ( I USE RACKS) regardless what is your success rate I hope it was 100% but since u ignored it maybe not? anyways thank you for your valuable info about natural incubation and laying process. my main point being I wouldnt want to loss a valuable egg, especially with the odss being what they are with morph combos, and to clarify im not in it for the money either I just would not want to miss out on a beautiful egg because of a careless error. just my opinion. again thank you for your info on the humidity tub and what not.
    No sir, I am not contradicting myself. My mother is a midwife. Here... this may be a thread hijack but this is info you might wanna scan through to understand what I'm trying to say: http://www.yourchildbirthguide.com/m...or-doctor.html - read through the first few paragraphs under Different Models of Care. And I say being a woman - because being a woman, I've been through 2 pregnancies so I can speak with some semblance of authority on the matter.

    Where I am going with that - pregnancy/childbirth is not a medical event. For humans or animals alike. Complications in pregnancy makes it a medical event. Therefore, having a healthy snake incubate its own eggs is not a "medical hazard".

    I responded on the hatch rate in a previous post. If you missed it - I stated that mine wasn't 100% due to my error (first clutch and all) but that several forum members here on bp.net do have 100% hatch rate year after year. You can search maternal incubation and see for yourself.

    Whether you incubate or you allow the snake to incubate doesn't guarantee you 100% hatch rate. But, you increase the chance of a healthy clutch by knowing what you're doing - in either case.

    P.S. I didn't do maternal incubation because I want it "natural". I went the maternal incubation route because, as my first foray into breeding, I trusted the snake to care for the eggs better than I can. And, the way I feel now, I still trust the snake better than me - therefore, I will continue to do maternal incubation.

    P.P.S. - puting a snake in a rack is not too much different than what the snake instinctively does in the wild - from what researchers have gathered is the natural habits of a ball python. In the wild, researchers report that bp's stay in burrows and do not roam unless thermo-regulating, looking for food, or finding a mate. We provide the same needs in a different way.
    Last edited by anatess; 01-05-2011 at 03:21 AM.
    ----------------------------------
    BP owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
    0.1.0 pastel bp
    1.0.0 spider bp
    0.1.0 albino bp
    1.0.0 bumblebee bp
    1.0.0 yellowbelly bp
    0.0.1 normal bp
    1.0.0 normal western hognose


    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

  4. #14
    BPnet Veteran Aztec4mia's Avatar
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    Re: Incubator vs. Natural

    41 qt sterilite tub w/lid, cypress mulch bedding, as soon as i saw signs she was gravid i put in a smaller plastic container upside down with a small hole on the side for entry(about an inch shorter then her tub and about 3/4 of the width and a 1/3 of the length). Filled it with damp sphagnum moss and left a thin layer of the mulch at the bottom. placed the edge of the container at the edge of the hotspot (11inch flexwatt) and placed about an inch of the mulch around the container to keep it in place.

    Let mama do her thing and adjust the nest as she wanted and once i seen her wrapped around the pearly whites placed the thermometer prob as best i could in the center of the clutch (which needed to be adjusted every now and then), sprayed the mulch around the outside of the container and the entrance to the container daily to keep the humidity up, kep the temps between 86-89 degrees(kind of hard with a on/off thermostat).

    she was a first time mom and i had 5 beautiful babies(100% hatch rate) start cutting on day 54, placed babies in there own tub on wet papertowls, removed the container and sphagnum moss from moms tub and she was feeding a couple days later.

  5. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Aztec4mia For This Useful Post:

    anatess (01-05-2011),Byrdie (01-05-2011),PitOnTheProwl (01-05-2011),wax32 (01-09-2011)

  6. #15
    BPnet Veteran Xan Powers's Avatar
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    being a first time breeder this season I have to say I've been spending hours a day on this forum via tapatalk from my phone lol. this thread is by far one of the most interesting.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Xan Powers!
    -Going back to being active-

  7. #16
    BPnet Veteran anatess's Avatar
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    Re: Incubator vs. Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by Aztec4mia View Post
    41 qt sterilite tub w/lid, cypress mulch bedding, as soon as i saw signs she was gravid i put in a smaller plastic container upside down with a small hole on the side for entry(about an inch shorter then her tub and about 3/4 of the width and a 1/3 of the length). Filled it with damp sphagnum moss and left a thin layer of the mulch at the bottom. placed the edge of the container at the edge of the hotspot (11inch flexwatt) and placed about an inch of the mulch around the container to keep it in place.

    Let mama do her thing and adjust the nest as she wanted and once i seen her wrapped around the pearly whites placed the thermometer prob as best i could in the center of the clutch (which needed to be adjusted every now and then), sprayed the mulch around the outside of the container and the entrance to the container daily to keep the humidity up, kep the temps between 86-89 degrees(kind of hard with a on/off thermostat).

    she was a first time mom and i had 5 beautiful babies(100% hatch rate) start cutting on day 54, placed babies in there own tub on wet papertowls, removed the container and sphagnum moss from moms tub and she was feeding a couple days later.
    Awesome Aztec! For next time, try feeding mama snake on the same schedule even when she's on the eggs. My snake ate every 10 days throughout the incubation process.

    During the first 2 feed schedules, we would unwrap mama off her eggs and feed her in a separate container (this is our normal feeding process - we feed in a separate container because we offer live rats and the snakes live in a super-decorated viv that has tons of nooks and crannies that the rat can hide in and poop on, etc.). Mama snake was the "evil snake from hell" while incubating - she goes into strike mode the second you open the tub and we just got tired of having to wrap her head in a towel and all that jazz just so we can move her to a separate container. So, for the rest of the feedings, we would just drop the rat in the tub and she would uncoil half her body off the eggs, strike and eat while half her body is still around the eggs. Quite amazing to see.
    ----------------------------------
    BP owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
    0.1.0 pastel bp
    1.0.0 spider bp
    0.1.0 albino bp
    1.0.0 bumblebee bp
    1.0.0 yellowbelly bp
    0.0.1 normal bp
    1.0.0 normal western hognose


    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

  8. #17
    Registered User zmd0827's Avatar
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    Re: Incubator vs. Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by Byrdie View Post
    I am actually quite interested in how you Naturally hatch them such as substrate humidity and temp? i know the incubator temps and i even plan to build one someday...but a natural birth seems kinda cool also are they in a tub or a tank I MUST KNOW! lol
    Sorry for the late reply. They are in tanks, not tubs... There are a lot of responses, but it's 12.32 AM and I have to be up at 6 to get to class. First day back and work, and I'm wiped.

  9. #18
    Registered User LOSTCOAST_BALLZ's Avatar
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    Re: Incubator vs. Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by anatess View Post
    No sir, I am not contradicting myself. My mother is a midwife. Here... this may be a thread hijack but this is info you might wanna scan through to understand what I'm trying to say: http://www.yourchildbirthguide.com/m...or-doctor.html - read through the first few paragraphs under Different Models of Care. And I say being a woman - because being a woman, I've been through 2 pregnancies so I can speak with some semblance of authority on the matter.

    Where I am going with that - pregnancy/childbirth is not a medical event. For humans or animals alike. Complications in pregnancy makes it a medical event. Therefore, having a healthy snake incubate its own eggs is not a "medical hazard".

    I responded on the hatch rate in a previous post. If you missed it - I stated that mine wasn't 100% due to my error (first clutch and all) but that several forum members here on bp.net do have 100% hatch rate year after year. You can search maternal incubation and see for yourself.

    Whether you incubate or you allow the snake to incubate doesn't guarantee you 100% hatch rate. But, you increase the chance of a healthy clutch by knowing what you're doing - in either case.

    P.S. I didn't do maternal incubation because I want it "natural". I went the maternal incubation route because, as my first foray into breeding, I trusted the snake to care for the eggs better than I can. And, the way I feel now, I still trust the snake better than me - therefore, I will continue to do maternal incubation.

    P.P.S. - puting a snake in a rack is not too much different than what the snake instinctively does in the wild - from what researchers have gathered is the natural habits of a ball python. In the wild, researchers report that bp's stay in burrows and do not roam unless thermo-regulating, looking for food, or finding a mate. We provide the same needs in a different way.
    "Being a woman, it is always interesting to me that people treat pregnancy as a medical event. It is not. It's just a normal part of the life cycle. Hence, a lot of people prefer the midwife over an OB. The OB is only there when the event becomes a medical concern (complications such as pre-eclampsia, etc.)" in my mind this is for sure conflicting, u say that midwifes are only there for medical complications? right? but u started off saying its not a medical event i mean come on lady.WHY does it interest you in why people find pregnancy a medical event because there are medical complications regularly. thats all im saying so in my mind that justifys it as a medical event LOL babys die all the time of complications LOL now i could provide links and what not from reliable sources but you should just start a thread so we can start our own convo! HAHAHAHA.

    LOL well im glad you were raised in an enviroment where losing children or eggs was acceptable due to error. as a father I want my children to survive and have access to any care or equipment needed due to complications thats all. therefore my family has allways had it be a "medical event" shocking i know. LOL interesting read. and your in love with this naturalistic vibe with snakes, im sorry i maybe just a realist. I understand that by putting an animal on paper and in a tub I can create a safe enviroment for them its all about the snakes health in captivity thats all. Im not trying to jack threads i have been prone to this lately i apologize.

    I am very interested in natural methods just still think error CAN possibly come into play. thats all and we have proof of this on the thread.
    Last edited by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ; 01-06-2011 at 02:13 AM.

  10. #19
    BPnet Veteran Aztec4mia's Avatar
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    Re: Incubator vs. Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by anatess View Post
    Awesome Aztec! For next time, try feeding mama snake on the same schedule even when she's on the eggs. My snake ate every 10 days throughout the incubation process.

    During the first 2 feed schedules, we would unwrap mama off her eggs and feed her in a separate container (this is our normal feeding process - we feed in a separate container because we offer live rats and the snakes live in a super-decorated viv that has tons of nooks and crannies that the rat can hide in and poop on, etc.). Mama snake was the "evil snake from hell" while incubating - she goes into strike mode the second you open the tub and we just got tired of having to wrap her head in a towel and all that jazz just so we can move her to a separate container. So, for the rest of the feedings, we would just drop the rat in the tub and she would uncoil half her body off the eggs, strike and eat while half her body is still around the eggs. Quite amazing to see.
    Thanks i'll have to give it a try next time, didn't take long for her to get her weight back on plus some, I think she's getting this year off unless I find a nice male to stick with her.

  11. #20
    Registered User BEasy119's Avatar
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    Re: Incubator vs. Natural

    Quote Originally Posted by anatess View Post
    Mine wasn't 100%. I made the mistake of making too big a cut on the eggs - it was my first clutch - it looked like Edward Scissorhands got hold of the eggs.

    Quiet Tempest have 100% hatch rate on hers year after year as well as some others on this forum.
    With that being said should u cut the eggs in the first place. I'm going to try to breed this year and i'm wondering about cutting eggs

    0.1 Pastel (LemonDrop)
    1.0 Mojave (Mojo)
    1.1 Normals (Otis, Queen)
    1.0 Pinstripe (Pins)

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ILUVREPTILES1?feature=mhum

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