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Thread: liability issue

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    liability issue

    I have been selling some dubia roaches here and there. I recently had an order and the seller paid for overnight shipping. I told him that the order could not ship before the weekend but I would do my best to ship on Monday. I admit, I did not follow up and tell the buyer the item was shipped however I did ship on Monday as I said I would. I personally could go either way on this dispute hence the public posting for opinion. Anyway, the item was shipped and US postal puts the box between his doors. Either there was no knock or he did not hear one. The box sat in the heat and all the roaches died. In your opinion, who is liable for the mistake? If both parties are liable in what amounts?

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    Re: liability issue

    Quote Originally Posted by suzuki4life View Post
    I have been selling some dubia roaches here and there. I recently had an order and the seller paid for overnight shipping. I told him that the order could not ship before the weekend but I would do my best to ship on Monday. I admit, I did not follow up and tell the buyer the item was shipped however I did ship on Monday as I said I would. I personally could go either way on this dispute hence the public posting for opinion. Anyway, the item was shipped and US postal puts the box between his doors. Either there was no knock or he did not hear one. The box sat in the heat and all the roaches died. In your opinion, who is liable for the mistake? If both parties are liable in what amounts?
    I think the legal liability depends on your state commerce laws. What was the contractual, understanding implied or written of guaranteeing a live shipment?

    There is no 'meeting of the minds,' if the buyer has paid for an item, and they received a dead shipment. I personally think if the buyer is 50% responsible then they could request 50% of the cost of the roaches, but no shipping fees should be refunded, since the item did ship. If it was understood by the buyer that the item would ship on Monday, and you both understood this, then I don't see any real liability if the cause of death of the product was due to negligence on the part of the buyer. If it was not agreed that the item would ship on a specific date and the buyer was completely unaware of when the package would arrive, then I would think you had some culpability.

    IMHO
    Last edited by Chocolate Muffin's; 08-06-2010 at 09:37 PM. Reason: clarity of thought
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    Re: liability issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's View Post
    I think the legal liability depends on your state commerce laws. What was the contractual, understanding implied or written of guaranteeing a live shipment?

    There is no 'meeting of the minds,' if the buyer has paid for an item, and they received a dead shipment. I personally think if the buyer is 50% responsible then they could request 50% of the cost of the roaches, but no shipping fees should be refunded, since the item did ship.

    IMHO
    overnighting them was used to help guarantee a live arrival. Now overnighting a package doesn't do a thing if it is allowed to lay on your doorstep for 9 hours in the heat. I understand what you have written, but I am looking more about ethics than legal. Most laws are unethical when placed in real world settings IMHO.

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    Re: liability issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's View Post
    I think the legal liability depends on your state commerce laws. What was the contractual, understanding implied or written of guaranteeing a live shipment?

    There is no 'meeting of the minds,' if the buyer has paid for an item, and they received a dead shipment. I personally think if the buyer is 50% responsible then they could request 50% of the cost of the roaches, but no shipping fees should be refunded, since the item did ship. If it was understood by the buyer that the item would ship on Monday, and you both understood this, then I don't see any real liability if the cause of death of the product was due to negligence on the part of the buyer. If it was not agreed that the item would ship on a specific date and the buyer was completely unaware of when the package would arrive, then I would think you had some culpability.

    IMHO
    So if you shipped someone a snake, it was left on their doorstep on the date you said it should be there and they didn't bother to check to see if it arrived: your stance is tough noogies?

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    Re: liability issue

    If you value the business of selling them, it might be best to chalk it up as a loss and send more, free of charge. Good customer service can only help spread the word (if that's what you would like), but he may just bad mouth you if all you do is request a refund for the dead roaches minus shipping as you did ship it.

    If somebody personally said they'd *try their best* to ship it on Monday for a Tuesday delivery, i wouldn't be waiting around unless I got confirmation that the person was indeed sending/sent the package.

    Who knows, the loss of some roaches could mean more business if he talks to his friends and gives them your info. If it's expensive to ship them, you could ask for just shipping costs and you would send what he ordered that died + some just to show you value their business. You never specified on the amount of roaches/cost, but if you're trying to expand the business/side job, whatever you want to call it, 1 bad experience can turn away several potential buyers. Remember, its not the truth, but how it's spun!

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    Re: liability issue

    Quote Originally Posted by suzuki4life View Post
    So if you shipped someone a snake, it was left on their doorstep on the date you said it should be there and they didn't bother to check to see if it arrived: your stance is tough noogies?
    I just feel like from an ethical perspective, the buyer has an obligation as the owner of that animal to ensure that he/she is available upon arrival of the package. When I had my snake delivered, I tracked it directly online from doorstep to doorstep. It's a live animal and its part of responsible pet ownership to ensure the animal arrives safely and in good health. The owner should of been on the lookout since they knew it was coming that day, don't you think?

    You shipped the product as agreed, in the manner agreed, in the time frame agreed - how and why are you responsible if they recipient didn't keep an eye out for the package or the shipper mishandled the delivery?
    Last edited by Chocolate Muffin's; 08-06-2010 at 09:53 PM.
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    Re: liability issue

    Quote Originally Posted by ScubaRyan View Post
    If you value the business of selling them, it might be best to chalk it up as a loss and send more, free of charge. Good customer service can only help spread the word (if that's what you would like), but he may just bad mouth you if all you do is request a refund for the dead roaches minus shipping as you did ship it.

    If somebody personally said they'd *try their best* to ship it on Monday for a Tuesday delivery, i wouldn't be waiting around unless I got confirmation that the person was indeed sending/sent the package.

    Who knows, the loss of some roaches could mean more business if he talks to his friends and gives them your info. If it's expensive to ship them, you could ask for just shipping costs and you would send what he ordered that died + some just to show you value their business. You never specified on the amount of roaches/cost, but if you're trying to expand the business/side job, whatever you want to call it, 1 bad experience can turn away several potential buyers. Remember, its not the truth, but how it's spun!
    I personally feel my liability is less than 1%. I have offered a refund minus the shipping costs already BUT I have requested proof of death via photos to be emailed to me prior to refund given. Buyer doesn't sound too happy the refund is not 100%. And the buyer isn't happy i asked the photos to be in a measuring cup (how I measure roaches for count) to show all are dead, not half or a third. A hundred roaches looks like a lot spread out. 500 could be piled and you wouldn't know how many it was in a good photo. But 9oz of roaches is what i sent.

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    Re: liability issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's View Post
    I just feel like from an ethical perspective, the buyer has an obligation as the owner of that animal to ensure that he/she is available upon arrival of the package. When I had my snake delivered, I tracked it directly online from doorstep to doorstep. It's a live animal and its part of responsible pet ownership to ensure the animal arrives safely and in good health. The owner should of been on the lookout since they knew it was coming that day, don't you think?

    You shipped the product as agreed, in the manner agreed, in the time frame agreed - how and why are you responsible if they recipient didn't keep an eye out for the package or the shipper mishandled the delivery?

    I agree....

    I had boas shipped to me three winters ago. UPS put them in the snow on my porch and left without a knock. I had over a grand in boas in that box. I had my eye out for it. But that is me.

  10. #9
    BPnet Veteran Chocolate Muffin's's Avatar
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    Re: liability issue

    Quote Originally Posted by suzuki4life View Post
    I personally feel my liability is less than 1%. I have offered a refund minus the shipping costs already BUT I have requested proof of death via photos to be emailed to me prior to refund given. Buyer doesn't sound too happy the refund is not 100%. And the buyer isn't happy i asked the photos to be in a measuring cup (how I measure roaches for count) to show all are dead, not half or a third. A hundred roaches looks like a lot spread out. 500 could be piled and you wouldn't know how many it was in a good photo. But 9oz of roaches is what i sent.
    I agree with you. And if they are all dead, they buyer should be able to easily prove that. Does the buyer think its your fault? What do they think? Just curious...
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    WELCOME HOME!
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  11. #10
    BPnet Veteran Chocolate Muffin's's Avatar
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    Re: liability issue

    Quote Originally Posted by suzuki4life View Post
    I have been selling some dubia roaches here and there. I recently had an order and the seller paid for overnight shipping. I told him that the order could not ship before the weekend but I would do my best to ship on Monday. I admit, I did not follow up and tell the buyer the item was shipped however I did ship on Monday as I said I would. I personally could go either way on this dispute hence the public posting for opinion. Anyway, the item was shipped and US postal puts the box between his doors. Either there was no knock or he did not hear one. The box sat in the heat and all the roaches died. In your opinion, who is liable for the mistake? If both parties are liable in what amounts?
    Quote Originally Posted by suzuki4life View Post
    I agree....

    I had boas shipped to me three winters ago. UPS put them in the snow on my porch and left without a knock. I had over a grand in boas in that box. I had my eye out for it. But that is me.
    yup - absolutely!!!!
    Chocolate Muffin (f- normal) - 4 1/2 years old
    Nico N. Wilson (f - normal) - 20 years old

    and introducing:


    Doreanne P. Smithe - 3 years old
    (f - BCI /CRTB)


    WELCOME HOME!
    Doreanne

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