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  1. #1
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    In breeding! Good or bad?

    I mean I have a nice group so far my male's son thou likes his sister(a lil to much) so just wondering what are the negatives of inbreeding and such?

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    Re: In breeding! Good or bad?

    everyone does it(with their feeders and snakes).
    i started with a few rats and every litter i hold back more for breeding. no ill effects to date(though ive only been breeding a short time) but in all honesty my buddy has been breeding for years and never buys new bloodlines and he maybe gets a tumor case once every 200 rats. which is pretty good. he does get the occasional deformity such as no legs blind ect ect. but all that could get chocked up to prenatal problems in individual rats. so i say do it

    adam jeffery

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    harm286 (11-13-2009)

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    Re: In breeding! Good or bad?

    What about mice

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    Re: In breeding! Good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by harm286 View Post
    What about mice
    Same Thing!

    Daniel

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    harm286 (11-18-2009)

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    BPnet Veteran nixer's Avatar
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    Re: In breeding! Good or bad?

    sometimes with mice you will get a spinner or some that are just not right.
    but it takes quite some time and i would say that unless your breeding alot of mice you more than likely will not see it.

    inbreeding anything at a certain point will bring hidden genetic issues to the surface.
    just remember most things are good in moderation.
    personally i will bring in a new group every once in a great while.

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    Re: In breeding! Good or bad?

    Just thought I'd chime in...

    I've done both with my rats/afs (this can go for mice too): added new blood for breeding, and held back. My preference lies solidly in holding back and in/line breeding. Here's why:

    Your colony will develop immunities within itself very quickly, and your animals will be healthy and strong. Bringing in new stock introduces new blood, true, but with it can come diseases, sicknesses, faulty genes, etc. If you have good strong genes in your colony, there's no reason why you should bring in more blood. The one time I did it, I regretted it sorely. I lost some of my best breeders due to God knows what, even though they weren't housed with the new guys.

    Every now and then I get a spinner, maybe 1x every six months (I produce upwards of 100 rats per month, just counting fancies), but I just feed them off when I notice it and that's taken care of.

    BTW: Spinning, if it happens to a rat/rodent before about 1.5 - 2 years of age, can be attributed to a neurological disorder, which is not harmful to your snakes or anyone else in the colony. If it develops later in life, it is likely a bacterial infection, and it can spread. I've never had it develop late, but if I did, I would have to euthanize that animal and the animals housed with it. I can't risk that going through my colony. This is a little tid bit I picked up off of a vet friend of mine when I asked her about it.

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    Registered User pitoon's Avatar
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    Re: In breeding! Good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by harm286 View Post
    I mean I have a nice group so far my male's son thou likes his sister(a lil to much) so just wondering what are the negatives of inbreeding and such?
    most laboratories will inbreed a max of 7 generations to get their results. it has been proven that any more after that can cause visual defects to come out. that's how most laboratories create their strains of mice/rats.

    Pitoon

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    Re: In breeding! Good or bad?

    If you are going to inbreed you need to cull heavily. If you pull out any rat that has any sign of being f'd up in any way you will leave only the good genes behind. Inbreeding is not harmful. It just amplifies whatever traits are there. If they are good traits you will get all good strong rats. If they are bad traits then all of your rats will suck LOL>

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    Re: In breeding! Good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by pitoon View Post
    most laboratories will inbreed a max of 7 generations to get their results. it has been proven that any more after that can cause visual defects to come out. that's how most laboratories create their strains of mice/rats.

    Pitoon
    Hmm. I don't know about that max of 7 generations. Without knowing where that info came from, my first guess is that if it has any basis in reality, they inbreed for a MINIMUM of 7 generations to get the genetic conformity that they desire.

    Here is a link I found recently when looking for info on Swiss Webster mice:

    1) H
    "a mouse strain selected over 101 generations for high litter size, The H-strain, has a mean (± SD) litter size at birth of 21.5 ± 3.5 pups. University of Norway, Department of Animal Science"
    http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=354683,354683

    And here is another link I just found:

    The International Committee on Standardized Nomenclature for Mice has ruled that a strain of mice can be considered "inbred" at generation F20 (Committee on Standardized Genetic Nomenclature for Mice, 1989).....(5 paragraphs later)....All of the classical inbred strains (including those in Table 3.2 and many others) have been inbred for at least 60 generations.
    http://www.informatics.jax.org/silve...ters/3-2.shtml

    OK, so apparently it has been defined since 1989 that mice must be inbred for at least 20 generations before they can even be officially an inbred strain. Also, I didn't quote this part, but they are defining inbreeding as brother-sister crosses. Some of us with rodent colonies are doing that, but also often we might be mating cousins, or half-brother to half-sister, etc. So our inbreeding isn't as intense as what they are doing in labs.

    Inbreeding is not inherently dangerous. It does not "cause" defects, visual or otherwise, to spontaneously appear. It will sometimes cause hidden defective genes to show themselves. That's ok. Cull those animals with problems, and by inbreeding you can eliminate those defective genes from your bloodlines. It is important that if you are going to be inbreeding, that you are selective about which animals you hold back as breeders.
    Last edited by kc261; 01-22-2010 at 02:08 PM. Reason: clarifying
    Casey

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