Congressional Budget Office to "Score" HR2811

[Herp Hugger]

Does anyone know if there is an association similar to USARK in Canada? I'm sure if the USA is dealing with this kind of legislation, we can't be too far behind.

Thanks!

[omnibus2]

Honestly, because of the few irresponsible owners out there, that ruin it for everyone, I believe that Instead of "permits" there should be mandatory classes, and a mandatory test. Just like a drivers license. There are drivers licenses because irresponsible people get themselves or others killed. Same with VERY few snake owners (those are the idiots that ruin it for everyone). It would fend away impulse buyers (mostly), and educate the uninformed, if they still want to go through with it. THATS what needs to happen, because if you care about your herps, you'll go. You'll pay attention, and you'll pass the test. Just a thought. Forget permits that cost so many hundred dollars. Instead, make licenses that you have to take tests for. I know I would sit through a year of day in day out classes for my herp. Would you? Exactly. REAL snake owners would put in the time. Just my .

I understand your good intent, but I think that's a terrible idea. There are plenty of people who wouldn't have bothered getting a ball python if they had to take classes (not everyone has time to spare), but ended up being involved members in the hobby, or even breeders. Not everybody is a devoted herper when they get their first snake.

[I<3Dreamsicles]

I understand your good intent, but I think that's a terrible idea. There are plenty of people who wouldn't have bothered getting a ball python if they had to take classes (not everyone has time to spare), but ended up being involved members in the hobby, or even breeders. Not everybody is a devoted herper when they get their first snake.

I think its supposed to be more focused on large species. The only benifit of having classes for smaller snakes would be for the animals well being. And I doubt that the government really cares about that.

Everyone should at least have SOME knowledge of what their getting no matter what it is. Its not like its hard to type in "ball python care sheet" on google.

[nixer]

I think its supposed to be more focused on large species. The only benifit of having classes for smaller snakes would be for the animals well being. And I doubt that the government really cares about that.

Everyone should at least have SOME knowledge of what their getting no matter what it is. Its not like its hard to type in "ball python care sheet" on google.

i agree, but i dont think reading a few caresheets are going to qualify anyone for any permit. its not going to be cheap period. they have to make money on the permit system in order for it to work out for them or there will be no one to even approve the permits, just like in guam

[Denial]

The ammendment that usark pushed them into is what they should have started off with in the first place, not the total ban of all pythons. Get it pushed more for no importing. Who needs imports anyway. Maybe INCLUDE something about permits???? No imports, but the ability to trade within the country, and/or require permits.

We all need imports. Thats how alot of new morphs have gotten here.
If you look at the import numbers with african rocks and burmese pythons compared to some other python species is pathetic. What if this were to ban the importation of ball pythons? There would be alot more buzz in it.

[I<3Dreamsicles]

i agree, but i dont think reading a few caresheets are going to qualify anyone for any permit. its not going to be cheap period. they have to make money on the permit system in order for it to work out for them or there will be no one to even approve the permits, just like in guam

Well yes, but say for a drivers license. It doesnt cost tons of money to get one. They should have something like that, and really I dont think it would be that bad just to have someone check on the enclosure they plan to use to "approve" of it. Or on a license test have some mock up situations that make the person think, like ask what they would do if theyre snake went missing, or how would they prevent it etc.

We all need imports. Thats how alot of new morphs have gotten here.
If you look at the import numbers with african rocks and burmese pythons compared to some other python species is pathetic. What if this were to ban the importation of ball pythons? There would be alot more buzz in it.

Yeah I realized that after I posted, but I was more focused on wild caught types, but the trade of morphs internationally would be something that should be able to happen. I really dont know. I couldnt tell you how the government views any kind of breeding for animals that arent a wild type/ "normal". Even if they did ban the imports of ball pythons, what im saying is that we still have tons of morphs available here already, and stuff that can be mixed so its not like theres an end to all morphs and BP breeding.

[lepidunce]

There are plenty of people who wouldn't have bothered getting a ball python if they had to take classes (not everyone has time to spare), but ended up being involved members in the hobby, or even breeders. Not everybody is a devoted herper when they get their first snake.

Sorry, I guess I should have made all that clear. I just meant classes for certain species of snakes, namely snakes that get to be over eight feet long. Also, if we could get rid of the small, small chunk of people that impulse buy retics, rocks, etc. for their first herp with no idea that they will get X feet long, we would be seen better by the media, and public in general. Because when it all boils down, which section of this community gets the lime light the most? The people that probably need those classes. I just think those classes would make the impulse buyers hesitate, and possibly become better keepers because they know what they are getting into, instead of getting on channel five because they hit the lottery with a "gentle giant" of a blood, and hurting someone. In short, let's try to educate the idiots BEFORE they do stuff that gets a new HR2811 passed.

Edit: thanks, I <3 Dreamsicles. You summed up the class thing for me.

[MattU]

I'm afraid I'd have to go against the idea of a permit, license, or anything else of that manner. A license is, at it's base, permission from the government to do something illegal(Meaning that if you don't have a license, can you own the animal? No. Why? It would be illegal). If we accept the idea of licensing, for anything, we are accepting that it is illegal. At that point, politicians can slowly make it more and more difficult to acquire the license, to the point of near or total impossibility. It's really a matter of liberty.

[I<3Dreamsicles]

I'm afraid I'd have to go against the idea of a permit, license, or anything else of that manner. A license is, at it's base, permission from the government to do something illegal(Meaning that if you don't have a license, can you own the animal? No. Why? It would be illegal). If we accept the idea of licensing, for anything, we are accepting that it is illegal. At that point, politicians can slowly make it more and more difficult to acquire the license, to the point of near or total impossibility. It's really a matter of liberty.

Some times things like that are needed because of a few idiots. Why do you think they have driving licenses and gun permits? Stupid people. Have they tried to get rid of cars or guns? Not really.

[MattU]

Some times things like that are needed because of a few idiots. Why do you think they have driving licenses and gun permits? Stupid people. Have they tried to get rid of cars or guns? Not really.

"Not really" would be the important part there. "Not really", but somewhat. They have some serious restrictions on them, especially on guns. Yes, as crazy as it sounds to some people, I am against those licenses too. But that's not the point of this particular discussion. What it boils down to, and keep in mind this is only my opinion, is that I don't feel the need to acquire permission from some bureaucrat to own a kingsnake, or a ball python, or a 20 foot retic. That's my business, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Like I said though, just my opinion.