Opinions...

I came across this Ad and thought that I would share it with everyone else. With all of the talk of morph sales and the future of the market I thought I'd jump in with this and let you all voice your own opinions...

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91926&page=1&pp=5

oh wow.... :eek:

I love this answer except for the uncalled for cut on the gator state!

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Ya think ! If and when I get an email from a "potential customer" asking me if I have income-adjusted price brackets for the same animal, I will know who to blame ! Louisiana ... Huey Long ..... some ideas don't die easy. Good luck Dave .

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I read this thread and just thought it seemed strange at first. Half price on morphs for those under a certain income..WTF? What's next, buy one get one free Albinos? Get real, if you want to sell your snakes for $500, sell them for $500!

What do they do pull credit checks and want to see your WICA card

Sounds like MKR with better Public Relations

Oh boy... this is gonna get ugly!

Sounds like another MKR in the making!

Also IMO you can either afford to get a morph or you can't.
I will admit I can't afford much BUT I am saving up to get a morph in the future... from a well known breeder. I'd rather pay the extra $$ and get a top of the line morph from good blood lines.... not just from any joe schmo who just wants to make a few extra $'s who sells "morphs" on the street corner.

Lol.....They have those new Ball Python morph stamps that you can cash in for a good morph from the Welfare office. I'm not rich at all and would like things cheap but this is not gonna to fly. If you wan't to help poor kids tell George Bush to help build more jobs and higher paying jobs and stop out-sourcing.

this doesn't have to get ugly, and i don't think it is a mkr thing., imo.


i disagree with this part of an explanation,


" No, this is custom-tailored for disadvantaged people that don't have it so easy. That don't have good paying jobs. That don't have well-to-do family to help them in times of need. That are on their own. There are a lot of folks that just barely make ends meet and I came up with this notion so as to help such people to have an opportunity to actually turn things around for themselves."


imo, if you can't afford food or the basics of life. keeping and caring for reptiles and other pets shouldn't be first on your list. our reptiles are a luxury to me and my family and also a responsibility as well. most luxuries in life have some form of cost. what about health care and vet costs??


vaughn

The only reason I compared to MKR is because my reasons for not supporting this individual and MKR would be the same. Half priced morphs do nothing to support the market no matter who is buying them. I sacrifice a lot of things financially to be able to care and expand my collection, and breeders like this who think they are helping; and I'm not saying he doesn't have good intentions by doing this, are actually hurting me and my plans for the future. That was all, I definitely don't think this will get ugly though for I do feel this guy has different reasons for doing what he's doing than MKR did.

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Originally Posted by kavmon

this doesn't have to get ugly, and i don't think it is a mkr thing., imo.


i disagree with this part of an explanation,


" No, this is custom-tailored for disadvantaged people that don't have it so easy. That don't have good paying jobs. That don't have well-to-do family to help them in times of need. That are on their own. There are a lot of folks that just barely make ends meet and I came up with this notion so as to help such people to have an opportunity to actually turn things around for themselves."


imo, if you can't afford food or the basics of life. keeping and caring for reptiles and other pets shouldn't be first on your list. our reptiles are a luxury to me and my family and also a responsibility as well. most luxuries in life have some form of cost. what about health care and vet costs??


vaughn

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Strong post!

I think it's big trouble telling "disadvantaged" people that breeding herps is their ticket to easy street.

And what about the poor snakes that are just a means to an end?

Allison and Vaughn, you both summed up my thoughts in your posts. If you are struggling to make ends meet, then put a savings account together and save up a few bucks a month..don't expect people to hand you expensive SNAKES!

I look at a morph that has taken years to produce...maybe an albino spider...now that is a ball python that I want..we all want it...

but I want to work for it. i don't want any of these gorgeous snakes handed to me. cutting the price 50% is a slap in the face...IMO..it basically confirms that i'm "low class", according to them...i don't need anyone to tell me

It basically would take all the fun out of it for me.

I will be damned if I dish out $1000 for a morph and Joe Blow can buy one for half that all because he decided he did not want to do anything with his life but wants to buy a snake that I want.

i don't think it's a fair policy

i've been to their site, they seem to specialize in burms/retics, beautiful animals

one more thing.....there's gonna be a lot of middle men making money off you

Joe Schmoe contacts David and says "i want snakes...lots of morphs..i'm a low income guy"

he pays $500 for a $1000 snake...3 days later, there's an ad from Joe Schmoe on kingsnake/fauna/reptileauctions/whatever for that very same snake for 8 or 900 bucks..

I agree with Vaughn. If you can't afford a snake at regular prices, then you cant afford to take care of it properly. Its just not a good idea.

The couple of things that worry me about this whole deal is as follows.I hope he realizes large constrictors are ILLEGAL in some states.Next i think he is setting himself up for some unneeded headaches from selling those snakes to someone who can not feed themselves let alone a 18ft+ snake.I am not knocking the guy for trying to share the "morphs" with others just think he is attempting to share the wrong snakes! If it were say corn snakes or such i could see it being ok but large constrictors NO WAY!

"I also feel that this opportunity enables the less privileged, whom often work MUCH harder to make a living than the upper classes, to make some lucrative investments that can make them 10 to 20-fold their investment in less than 3 years and thus they can then have a better, more rewarding life."


Look, I am VERY good at staying out of discussions like this, but this got to me. Who exactly gauges, or is qualified to label what hard work is, and who's doing it!?!?!? ........... Or not? >:/
That being said... I'd like to point out that if I were holding 5 morphs, 2 exceptional, 2 good, and one that should not be bred, and a "less privileged" person contacted me to purchase a snake for 1/2 price to put into a breding project... to get a leg up...I'm sure as HECK not going to send them one of the best... get me? How would that effect the market? NOT SAYING THAT IS HIS INTENTION... I do not know this person........ just a thought.

Another thing I find to be... off....

One their site of Available Animals they have stated:

"Here at High End Herps we do not create 50% "possible het" this, or 66% "probable het" that. No, we breed to produce fully visible morphs or exclusively 100% het animals. We don't goof around with "possible" anything. To us, "possible" is weak, uncertain and just plain risky and is therefore entirely lacking. When you purchase a het animal from us it is a 100% sure het. In fact, it is impossible to get a "possible het" anything from us because quite simply.... we don't produce them. And quite frankly we can't see why anyone else does. Why even bother? Would you spend good money on a "possible" Cadilac? No, neither would we. So why spend good money on a possible albino?"


Yet if you scroll down the list of snakes and the price list... you will see that they have a few 66% het animals....

I'm not voicing my opinion on this one way or another but having seen "if you can't afford full price how do you afford to care for it" pop up a few times. Affording 1000 or 1500 for a morph is different then spending 100/mo on food for said morph.

Just my two cents.

He's also talking about setting people up with multiple snakes as breeders...and the snakes he specializes in are giant snakes, if I'm not mistaken. If people are in the low-income bracket, no matter what state they're in, likelihood is, they're not going to have the SPACE to house 2+ giant snakes, let alone the money to pay for any vet bills that may arise.

I think, since he deals in giant snakes space should really be a concern. And I know that he says he'll help out with finding reasonable prices for feeders--but what happens when you're having to buy rabbits to feed your giant snakes, when you can't afford to?

--Kim

The demons are speaking to me, but must resist. :)

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

The demons are speaking to me, but must resist. :)

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LMAO cmon Ed release that DEMON:P

IMO it's the guy's decision to make as far as creating this new policy for his company.


I will add this...If he had a really nice morph that I wanted to acquire and he told me I would be able to buy it from him for half price why wouldn't I take advantage of it...

I'm not poor by anymeans, but I'm not rich either... I can afford to pay all of my bills, put food on the table and house and feed all of my ball pythons comfortably. But at the same time I don't have $1,000 saved up for a ball python (atleast not at the current moment)... But I could spend $500 and still be in my budget for current spending...If the guy Had say a Spider or a Mojave and he told me I could buy one today for half the price say...$500. And lets me look thru his available animals and I find something that screams " I'm the one you want'' I might just take it up.


As long as the animal is healthy, The one that I WANT to take care of for the next 20+ years and the customer service is great That's all that matters to me...The price is just an added benefit that helps me out a little bit with my passion of ball pythons. I'll end up getting that morph someday anyways, but it makes it more reachable at the current time.

This is just silly. People with $$ in their eyes getting nervous about being able to sell their animals...they can't handle the uncertainty...and all end up competing solely on price. This whole thing is nothing more than a marketing stunt where this seller will offer new customers wholesale prices...like Vaughn mentioned earlier...that happens every day in the wholesale market. What further supports that is how the seller said he would merely "trust people at their word" that they were lower income etc etc. A REAL business that offers these kinds of concessions does more than just "trust people at their word." Guys...this is just marketing...and look at all the free press he's getting by rocking the boat!

Agree's with Elevatethis

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

This is just silly. People with $$ in their eyes getting nervous about being able to sell their animals...they can't handle the uncertainty...and all end up competing solely on price. This whole thing is nothing more than a marketing stunt where this seller will offer new customers wholesale prices...like Vaughn mentioned earlier...that happens every day in the wholesale market. What further supports that is how the seller said he would merely "trust people at their word" that they were lower income etc etc. A REAL business that offers these kinds of concessions does more than just "trust people at their word." Guys...this is just marketing...and look at all the free press he's getting by rocking the boat!

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A good breeder is one that would keep every animal they produce if they could. Take Adam for example he prices the animals he likes higher than others so his favorites are more expencive. In my option breeders of that sort(above) never last long enough to really hurt the long term guys.

just my :2cent:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

This is just silly. People with $$ in their eyes getting nervous about being able to sell their animals...they can't handle the uncertainty...and all end up competing solely on price. This whole thing is nothing more than a marketing stunt where this seller will offer new customers wholesale prices...like Vaughn mentioned earlier...that happens every day in the wholesale market. What further supports that is how the seller said he would merely "trust people at their word" that they were lower income etc etc. A REAL business that offers these kinds of concessions does more than just "trust people at their word." Guys...this is just marketing...and look at all the free press he's getting by rocking the boat!

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Well said,sometimes you have to look a little deeper as to what motivates someone to suddenly deciede to reduce there prices. were they overpriced to begin with?
Was it because they could not move the overpriced crosses that very few wanted? or maybe just trying to draw attention to their selfs to get a larger piece of the pie. we have seen recently what extreme marketing ploys will get a business! :)
The reptile hobby is unlike any other business, trust has to be developed over a period of time. its not always about low prices. a quality product along with reasonable prices and good customer service all adds up to a happy existance for everyone. :)

Reading this so called anouncement, the only thing going through my mind was "bad planning and too many animals". Even if that isn't the case, I don't see this marketing ploy helping them or their customers at all, even with all the free press they are getting.

-Evan

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Well said,sometimes you have to look a little deeper as to what motivates someone to suddenly deciede to reduce there prices. were they overpriced to begin with?
Was it because they could not move the overpriced crosses that very few wanted? or maybe just trying to draw attention to their selfs to get a larger piece of the pie.

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I read this thread and just thought it seemed strange at first. Half price on morphs for those under a certain income..WTF? What's next, buy one get one free Albinos? Get real, if you want to sell your snakes for $500, sell them for $500!

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I think its all right there. They just want to get some attention, and sell at low prices so they can sell out their inventory. I think some people are so worried about the market going down, they start doing things like this to give themselves an advantage.

Let me start off with this is kind of scary.
Every post I see that says "thinking about breeding what do I need?" drives me over the edge. If you don't even know what you need you have no business breeding. I have spent almost 2 years reading, reading, and reading about breeding ball pythons and leopard geckos and I am not even sure if its something I even want to do.

Now people who have NO business breeding any animals, who couldn't care less about the animals themselves, and only a profit which they probably wont make much of when they realize ALL the costs of breeding. Will have easy access to these animals. Then whats going to happen when they don't have the money to support them and get the "bright" idea to release them into the wild?

There are reasons things cost a great amount $$$$$.
Sorry just had to get this off my chest.

This one is hilariou's!!!!! Alright guy's I'm going to sell you a snake that probably cost 100 buck's a month to feed later on in it's life . Oh yeah I'll take it back whenever you want. LOL I agree with Vaughn if you aren't doing well the last thing you need is an extra big mouth to feed.

Wait for the consequences :mad: not only for the market

People that get their snake for 50% less will start releasing them in the wild when they won't be able to keep up with the cost of feeding an adult snake a 60 pounds pig

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Originally Posted by High End Herps Inc

Here's one of our big girls. She's over 20 feet and over 225 pounds. She eats 60 pound pigs like many of our giants.

Enjoy! ;)

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...6Batch1008.jpg

David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc
http://www.HighEndHerps.com/
(318)335-3673

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woah that is huge, what is that?? it looks like it about to explode

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Originally Posted by Kizerk

woah that is huge, what is that?? it looks like it about to explode

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Albino Burm, maybe?

--Kim

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Originally Posted by AzureN1ght

Albino Burm, maybe?

--Kim

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Not sure but it was posted on this forum by the person at the origin of the "Half price snake for low income"

my main concern is them getting back hundreds of huge burms... where will they put them all?

odd...

It scares me how many inexperienced snake keepers are going to end up with huge constrictors they have no business owning.

Truer words were NEVER spoken: "You get what you pay for."
Like others said, this is a business based HUGELY on trust and rapport with your seller. I myself would be leary of buying from some person who has no reputation; what if they take my money and run? Now, buying from someone with a stellar rep on the BOI, as well as knowing and talking to that person on a forum.. and seeing their healthy snakes and other customers' joy at buying from them, this is what will strongly influence my personal buying into these snakes. So.. let's say some low-income people get a deal on a snake, half-price.. they have aspirations of breeding it to make money later? lol.. when the same person who sold them the snake cheap, is taking their business, because the others who would buy herps from non-reputable sources (such as a new breeder) are buying from the "charitable" lowballer, and the costomers with any real money are investing in rarer morphs and not the trickled-down bargains.. who will make money then?
As for retics/burms.. personally, I hate seeing people even breeding these snakes large-scale. Not to put anyone down who does, but I think there are enough of them on this earth, that need rescuing and are just too huge and potentially life-threatening, that there don't need to be more bred. It is not like a BP, that can hurt your thumb a little.. these can choke and kill people. Surplus BPs can be sold to relatively inexperienced starter-herpers when they are not needed for breeding or are the byproduct of morph breeding.. how about doing that with retics?

Is this half price deal on their entire inventory? I see they sell much more than ball pythons...

Living in Florida, I can tell you a lot of those Burmese and other giant snakes end up tossed in the Everglades with Iguanas and Monitors. IMO, they shouldn't be sold at any price, but that's just my opinion. Not everyone can properly house and care for such a large anything and most of these animals bought are just impulse buys that are never really thought through.

You can always find a home for a corn snake or even the local pet shops will take them back, but at least here in FL you could not pay someone to take back a 10ft Burmese. I found this out when I got rid of my Burmese a few years back. I started trying to return it to the local shops, none wanted it! Started with an ad for $200, then $100, finally ended with a free Burmese with cage and even then it took months.

I think the half price sale for the public is great as long as the snakes are healthy and his customer service is good. I asked what he carried in Ball Pythons and he simply replied with Piebalds and Hets.

Dan

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Originally Posted by newbpfanatic

You can always find a home for a corn snake or even the local pet shops will take them back, but at least here in FL you could not pay someone to take back a 10ft Burmese.

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It's really kind of sad to be honost with you. I'm not against people owning burms or retic's as long as they are experienced and let me say that again "Experienced" (with a capitol "E") with large boa's and/or pythons...

And your right, It's very hard to get rid of a 10ft Burmese. Especially if it's a male... or it's not a albino or some other morph.

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Originally Posted by newbpfanatic

I think the half price sale for the public is great as long as the snakes are healthy and his customer service is good.
Dan

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IMO If I was in his shoes and I decided I was going to lower the price i wouldn't even call it half price...whatever half price is...say $600. keep it at that and be done with it. If his animals are healthy and cust. service is great then awesome...I also talked to him myself and he said all of his animals come with a 4 month health guarantee..

Regardless I think anybody selling large species reptiles should have some kind of test or something to atleast insure that the person attempting to buy the animal is ready to accept that the animal will be eating 40-60 pound pigs sometime in it's life and that it will need a rather large enclosure and very well could take out FIDO the family dog and still be willing to continue with care and husbandry 20 years later...

Alot for somebody thinking about buying a burm/retic to ponder about...

I just don't think most people who buy these snakes really think down the road when this snake is 10ft or 15ft or weighs 100bs or 200lbs. Some people if capable should be allowed to own these creatures if they are capable and have the experience. The thing is, most of the people I see buying these snakes are teenagers at the local pet shops not old enough to drink! The local Pet store sells Burmese for $55.00 next to the $45.00 Ball Pythons. These kids, all they see is $10.00 more for a larger snake to drape around their neck at the beach!

Calling it a half price sale sounds great for the moment, but what happens when the 1/2 price sale is up? How do you charge double again and who will pay it? Honestly, I would just wait for the next 1/2 price sale to buy what I needed, if I knew one was available to begin with. I've got a GNC Gold card that gives me 20% off everything the first week of every month, take a guess when I shop at GNC?

If his ploy is to simply lower the price and offer certain snakes for a certain price, why not just do it? Why come up with a scheme to cover anything up? Isn't he allowed to sell his animals for what he feels like? I just don't get any of this.

Dan

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I agree with Vaughn. If you can't afford a snake at regular prices, then you cant afford to take care of it properly. Its just not a good idea.

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what if people do it just to save money? its like the whole big business vs small business like a small town with wal-mart

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Originally Posted by bchapman

what if people do it just to save money? its like the whole big business vs small business like a small town with wal-mart

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I think that you missed the point. This issue is this: What good, really, is enticing a person in a low income bracket living marginally above the poverty line to buy an animal which will end up costing a substancial amount of money over the long run. Just because the person gets half off the animal now does not mean they will continue to get half-off food, half off caging, half off vet bills, etc etc. They may save a few hundred now, but the animal will still cost the same in the long run. Is that an expense that someone with a very low income will be able to incur? Generally, I think the answer would be "no."

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I think that you missed the point. This issue is this: What good, really, is enticing a person in a low income bracket living marginally above the poverty line to buy an animal which will end up costing a substancial amount of money over the long run. Just because the person gets half off the animal now does not mean they will continue to get half-off food, half off caging, half off vet bills, etc etc. They may save a few hundred now, but the animal will still cost the same in the long run. Is that an expense that someone with a very low income will be able to incur? Generally, I think the answer would be "no."

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Exactly! You are a smart dude.... :rockon:

I think you already said the same thing earlier in the thread...I just reworded it...I guess he doesn't understand "glass." ;)

I have never run across a forum so prone to open criticism, incorrect assumption and yes, even rampant hostility. I don't usually repond to negative threads as I always strive to take the high road on such things but some of the things said here are just appalling to say the least. Certainly surprising. I have to question what the age of the status quo is here in this forum. Are most of you teenagers?

We are not some new reptile scammer on the block trying to lie, cheat and con our way to the top. We have been providing top of the line, high quality morphs for many years now and are well known in the larger snake morphs/species circles.

In addition to this we do screen each and every customer to ensure that they have enough experience with larger snake species to handle the responsibilities involved with raising large pythons. But quite frankly keeping and breeding large snakes isn't as hard to do as many of the more vocal folks here try to say it is that have probably never even had large snakes to begin with. I have noticed that the people that always say how hard it is have never even had one. And then to read such generalities as "All burmese will get 20 feet and eat 60 pound pigs" and "All burms get thrown into the Everglades" and "Burmese will squeeze you to death" is simply just absurd. It just isn't the way it is in real life. Very few burmese get that big. Very few snake owners dump their stock into rivers. Incredibly few feeding accidents occur that end up in a dead herper. Sure these things have happened in the past and even DO happen every decade or so, but not with any regularity with which to site it here as a generality or a constant.

As for the half off deal for financially disadvantaged folks, it is just what we say it is. I don't see what's so hard to understand about it and I certainly don't see where certain people have to conjur up some diabolical, ulterior plot on our part to; "trick people" or "dump our stock" or "ruin morph markets". I can't believe the level of insane, rampant paranoia on this site where everyone assumes everyone else is up to something evil and underhanded. Were not. We just want to give poorer folks a break. lol

Please try to keep these forums civil and positive and try to refrain from blatantly criticising everyone that does something that you don't understand right off. It really only can make one person look bad and it isn't the person you are bad mouthing.

David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc
http://www.HighEndHerps.com/
(318)335-3673

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I think you already said the same thing earlier in the thread...I just reworded it...I guess he doesn't understand "glass." ;)

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Most people dont! :D