Super Champagne Question

[chrid16371]

I read about the super champagnes Dave Green produced and that they didn't live very long unfortunately. I have not been able to find much info other than that. Have there been any others that were produced, if so we're the results the same? Has anyone tried to produce one with other genes to see if the other gene somehow helps? If a breeding project could result in a 15% chance of a super champagne being hatched should the project be avoided?

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[ajmreptiles]

They are part of the Pearl (hidden gene woma spider, woma, sable) complex. So unfortunately 99% of them end up dying not long after hatching, and those that survive have severe neurological problems

[Seven-Thirty]

If I recall, there have been other super champagnes that have been hatched with the same results and no one has tried adding genes to it as far as I know. The champagne is a homozygous lethal so it should generally be avoided. Even if the chance is slim there is always the possibility your entire clutch will be super champagnes and as a result, unviable. Though it is an extremely small chance of such a thing happening it doesn't mean it can't. Champagne to champagne should generally be avoided.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Super Champ is lethal none have been known to survive, and stacking up gene will not change anything just like it does not change anything in other mutations that have issues, multiple gene spider combos still wobble, multiple gene super black pastel combos are still prone to kinking and duck billing.

http://owalreptiles.com/issues.php

[OhhWatALoser]

They are part of the Pearl (hidden gene woma spider, woma, sable) complex. So unfortunately 99% of them end up dying not long after hatching, and those that survive have severe neurological problems

Where are the breedings to prove any of the morphs mentioned are in the same complex?

[ajmreptiles]

Where are the breedings to prove any of the morphs mentioned are in the same complex?

I misinterpreted the information I have believing it to be a complex but it does all come from Kevin McCurley.

It does not combine well with morphs such as Spider, Woma, HG Woma, and Sable. The resulting combos generally arrive with fatal neurological issues. - Kevin McCurley on champagne The Ultimate Ball Python: Morph Maker Guide

The next quote was during an interview on the Herp Herp Hooray podcast in which they were talking about lethal genes and Pearls in perticular
"I can breed it(HG Woma) to a champagne and make Pearls"

[Seven-Thirty]

The theory is that they are allelic but the only plausible way to prove it, I think, would be to breed them to black heads and then breed those to normals because from what I've seen/heard black head and spider are allelic and spider is supposed to be allelic with the rest of those morphs. So yeah...

[OhhWatALoser]

A simple allelic combo x normal pairing normally proves it, if not a few pairings do. I've never heard of any of the combos above proving that in some way.

[Seven-Thirty]

A simple allelic combo x normal pairing normally proves it, if not a few pairings do. I've never heard of any of the combos above proving that in some way.

https://jkrballstreetjournal.com/201...-ball-pythons/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf3FG_QXEf8&app=desktop

From these two I gathered that spider and black head are allelic but without first hand experience myself I could always be wrong.

[JodanOrNoDan]

https://jkrballstreetjournal.com/201...-ball-pythons/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf3FG_QXEf8&app=desktop

From these two I gathered that spider and black head are allelic but without first hand experience myself I could always be wrong.

This is some interesting stuff. I was totally unaware of it. If I had to bet I would have said the this group of genes were allelic however I did not think there was a way to prove it. I didn't realize blackhead was involved in the mentioned grouping. This changes my though process a little.