Sulfur = Fire

[Herpquest]

Emberball, just as a matter of nterest, who have you been getting your 'gossip' from? I speak to very few people, and those that I do speak to are trustworthy and personal friends, so apart from a small argument tnat I had with a greasy, olive sucking tosser on a forum in the UK.- and Sulfers were not referred to in that argument, I have't spoken to anyone outside my small circle of friends. If you receive any further comments attributed to me, they are most likely to be lies!
Eric Davies

[EmberBall]

Eric D., I am not going to get into an arguement over who said what 3 or 4 years ago.

I did talk to you via email regarding the Ember project. My recollection is that you were less than helpful, and said point blank, that the Ember was not a Fire. Whether you believed that, or were just protecting your Fire investment, when Fires were $30K each or more, I don't know.

The Ember came first, and was quickly thought to be a type of Co Dom Hypo. Most fingers pointed to Fire, and I think I emailed you, or you emailed me. Too me, the Ember is much more yellow as a baby, and as an adult, than a Fire. Looking back, it could be because the two Ember babies (05) were Het Hypo, which may have affected their look a bit. The info I received from people regarding the name Fire, and using the name Fire, came from the Ember, not the Sulfur. I was told by several people, not to use the name Fire, as it was being trademarked, and that you and Bob were guarding the name closely. I chose Ember, a Fire like name, in case the Ember did turn out to be a Fire, the name would "make sense." The information regarding the name Fire, was not rehashed once the Sulfur was proven genetic, and not a simple recessive, but what was found to be off limits for the Ember, was thought to be off limits for the Sulfur. What I mean was, people said not to use the name Fire for the Ember, so we chose to logically not use it for the Sulfur. Perhaps, if you had been a bit more helpful, or willing to talk via email, I might have emailed you directly. As I remember, I really had no desire to talk to you again, based on your short and not overly friendly emails. That combined with what I was hearing from others, well, I did what I thought was best for me and my project.

It is easy to say you do not care who used what after the fact, when Het Black Eyed Lucies are around $500. I believe you had a different tone, and sang a different tune, when they were $30-40K. I never blamed you for wanting to protect the Fire name, but you protecting the Fire name is one of the reasons I named the Ember and Sulfurs, so you come up in conversation every once in a blue moon.

Dave

[slangman]

[/QUOTE]

i dont know a lot about royals but that looks just like an adult fire to me . What would you say is the difference please ? From what i have read , they both probuce BEL's and look the same to me so is it until they are bred with each other that they are called different names . Surely somebody would have tried to cross the two lines to see if they were compatible and can produce a BEL from this pairing ?

Nik

[Herpquest]

David , who do you talk to? Some-one has fed you a load of crap! You come up with a statement like 'and that you and Bob were guarding the name closely'
Bob was never my business partner, how-ever much he may have wanted to be, We (EMBER REPTILES) which, may I add, were in existance long before you decided to use the name 'Ember' for your ball, sold a number of Fire males to Bob -Mike was never mentioned in any of Bob's e-mails, nor did I know of his existance for quite some time.
You are quite right when you refer to the manner with which I replied to your mails, I don't tolerate fools easily!
Like I said in my earlier post, I am not interested in who uses what name or who breeds what. I have more important tnings to think about than the precious BALL.
The Fire was in existance in the UK in 1997, when was the Ember first hatched???
Eric Davies

[EmberBall]

Eric, shoot me an email...Hoggwldreptile@aol.com

[EmberBall]

Fools?

I asked you what you thought of a snake. A snake that everyone was telling me looked like a Fire. You are the Fire guy, so I emailed you. That makes me a fool. You are a joke.

Forget what I said, don't email me, I have nothing to say to you. You have shown your true colors man, and YOU have backed up everything that people have said about you...funny how that works.

Dave

[RandyRemington]

Surely somebody would have tried to cross the two lines to see if they were compatible and can produce a BEL from this pairing ?

Nik

I don't think that has happened yet. Hopefully there are getting to be enough of both that someone will cross fire to sulfur soon. Until then regardless of who said what and when it's probably best that they have two different names.

So what happened with the ember ball? Has it proven and is there a homozygous known yet? Any compatibility with sulfur or fire tested or planed?

[Bill Buchman]

I don't know either of you Eric or Dave. Nor do I pretend to know all the details of your communications, timeline of projects in question, or any other number of important details tied to your conflict/dispute with each other.

However, I STRONGLY believe that more/different morph names is BETTER than lumping even remotely similar animals with NO GENETIC ties TOGETHER. Separation of lineage is BETTER. Allowing the viewing/buying public to decide which morphs they wish to support, and applaud -- is BETTER.

Differentiation, for lack of a better word, is GOOD. Differentiation is right. Differentiation works. Differentiation clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of proving and NAMING ball python morphs!!! Viva the DIFFERENCE!!!

[EmberBall]

The Ember project has not gone quite as planned.

I have the original female, and 1.1 05 Het Hypo Ember's from the original female, bred to a Ghost male. Since then, the male has not seemed interested in breeding, but I have high hopes this year. He has been in with the original Ember female, as well as the 05 Ember Het Hypo female. Hoping for some luck this year.

An 06 breeding produced 5 eggs that went bad, and one good egg. A Pastel Ember hatched out, looked healthy, but never shed, and never fed on its own, and ended up living only a month or so. It was stunning, and its death was a bummer.

This year, Ember het Hypo x Ember Het Hypo, Ember Het Hypo x Ember, Ember Het Hypo x Het Hypo, and Ember Het Hypo x normal....that is my plan for the Ember project this year. MIGHT do Ember het Hypo x Pastel, but have not decided.

[EmberBall]

One thing about the appearance of the Sulfur vs. the Fire. In my opinion, there are stunning, average, and below average animals from each line. If you like the Fire, based on one or two animals, don't count out the Sulfur. If you like the Sulfur, based on one or two pics, don't count out the Fire.

I think the Sulfur and Fire probably are two prime examples of Morphs that should be selectively bred....I think light females are the way to go, for male Sulfurs and Fires.