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Thread: Sulfur = Fire

  1. #41
    BPnet Veteran SUPERBALLS's Avatar
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    Re: Sulfur = Fire

    ok heres my shot, so i belive the fire and sulfer are just like a cinnamon and black pastel, they look basiclly the same with minor differences but noticeable at the same time, they both make basically the same super. yet when breed to other morphs you can also see the difference, like a black pewter and cinamon pewter look different, just the same as a sulpher pastel and fire pastel look differnt, i personaly like the fire pastel better just like i like the cinnamon pewter better too. so diffrerent morphs but close to the same results, i think it really comes down to what people perfer when it comes to other morph crosses with the fire and sulpher, i perfer the fire and the cinnamon crosses , get it

  2. #42
    BPnet Veteran SUPERBALLS's Avatar
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    Re: Sulfur = Fire

    and i dont know if most you know but sulfers have been around for some time know Exoticsbynature for example have had them for years

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  4. #43
    BPnet Veteran envy_ld50's Avatar
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    Re: Sulfur = Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by EmberBall View Post
    The original Sulfur female does not look like an adult Fire. Eric and I have had a recent discussion about it, and two options seem to be feasable. One, my female Sulfur could be the oldest het Black Eyed Lucy in existance, and maybe they all end up looking like her, when they get her age....she could be almost 20 years old. Second, she could have a hidden gene of some type. No Sulfur to original Sulfur breeding has been done yet.

    The Sulfur story is already on a thread on BP-Net somewhere, so I am not going to go into it again.

    I do not think the Sulfurs are more expensive than Fires?

    If you do not like the name, feel free not to buy a Sulfur, or buy one, and change the name to Fire, once you receive it With me, it was not an ego thing, naming it...it was a convinient thing, for the simple fact that I proved out two similar looking females in 2005, and got tired of not knowing which project people were emailing me about. There is alot more too the story, the reasoning behind the naming, and there is alot of False or just misinformed information floating around...If you have a question, feel free to post it, one at a time, and I will answer it to the best of my ability.

    Dave
    Hi Dave,

    I appreciate you coming into this thread to provide your knowledge on the issue. It is possible your original Sulfur is a fire. If she is that old I am sure she looks much different that any other fire they are always changing as they age. She may also be a fire hiding some special gene as you mentioned.

    Was there any reason you did not try to prove the gene out? I know that things in this hobby do get confusing which is my point to this thread! False information just hurts the whole hobby, Why not try to eliminate this information out of the gate?

    If we could trim out the additional names for morphs that have not yet been proven and earned to have their additional names we could keep things more organized. Once a unproven snake becomes proven it becomes it's own new mutation.

    It's the same elsewhere. If I receive an apple I phone stripped of it's logos and added my own logo's does that make it my product? NO! It may not even be a legitimate I Phone. However if I took it to the apple store and spent the extra time I would know exactly what I had.
    -Cliff-
    SulfurPythons.com -COMING SOON-

  5. #44
    BPnet Veteran envy_ld50's Avatar
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    Re: Sulfur = Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_Compel View Post
    Hey Dave,
    Did the founding female kind of look like what used to be called a burgundy? If remember the correct girl.......she was pretty.

    Hidden genes????? AAAHHHHH.......that would be a reason to distinguish fires from sulfurs....

    Big congrats to you and Eric by the way.....awesome snakes.
    Hidden genes would not exactly make it a different morph. It would have to be proven again. Nerd has womas that have hidden gene's when bred to lessers however they are still womas. IE; Sulfur's could possibly fires with a little something extra, but that still makes them fires. I believe that Ember should have went with a tag such as. Ember Fire or the Ember Fire Line.
    -Cliff-
    SulfurPythons.com -COMING SOON-

  6. #45
    West Coast Jungle's Avatar
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    Re: Sulfur = Fire

    I think naming it a sulpher from the begining was the right thing. They are different lines with different looks and untill they have even been proven compatable one must consider that they may not.

    It may come down to the butter lesser thing. They are different lines of a similar morph and the different names tell you what the lineage is.
    All lessers come from Ralphs line and butters are different lines. Ralph himself owns both and feels that way.

    All sulphurs come from Davids original animal and are a different lineage than fires, even if they are proven compatable they still come from different genetic lines which i think is helpful when discussing genetics. I have seen both and to me fires start off and stay lighter than sulphurs.

    I like knowing as much as I can about genetics and lines so I can pass on the most accurate info to anyone inquiring about an animal I am working with.

    Thats my take on it.

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  8. #46
    BPnet Veteran SUPERBALLS's Avatar
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    Re: Sulfur = Fire

    agreed, like i said black pastel and cinnamon pastel same but different

  9. #47
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    Re: Sulfur = Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle View Post
    I think naming it a sulpher from the begining was the right thing. They are different lines with different looks and untill they have even been proven compatable one must consider that they may not.

    It may come down to the butter lesser thing. They are different lines of a similar morph and the different names tell you what the lineage is.
    All lessers come from Ralphs line and butters are different lines. Ralph himself owns both and feels that way.

    All sulphurs come from Davids original animal and are a different lineage than fires, even if they are proven compatable they still come from different genetic lines which i think is helpful when discussing genetics. I have seen both and to me fires start off and stay lighter than sulphurs.

    I like knowing as much as I can about genetics and lines so I can pass on the most accurate info to anyone inquiring about an animal I am working with.

    Thats my take on it.
    Fires are variable. Each Fire looks different in shade and pattern. I have done alot of research on fires and received information from Davies including pictures that show color changes in continued breeding. The fact that they may be different lines makes them no different. They are still the same morph.

    With what some breeders have said in this thread it would be okay for me to get a imported animal lets say a wide pattern Mojave that has very high blushing. Upon getting this new lineage animal from Africa I can call it the purple dragon! And anyone who sees the new purple dragon is now being misled (intentional or unintentional) because I didn't PROVE it to be different.

    I just don't see how anyone can be okay with saying hey it looks different so I believe it is different. Also on the topic of super cinny's and black pastels. They are different not only by lineage but by mutation characteristics. Cinny's produce different colors and their pattern is often more circular.

    If we want to argue that davies fires and Ember's sulfurs are different lines we would actually need to do blood tests to determine this how would anyone possibly know without it.
    -Cliff-
    SulfurPythons.com -COMING SOON-

  10. #48
    BPnet Veteran PythonWallace's Avatar
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    Re: Sulfur = Fire

    I think they should be called sulfurs as well. With all the ball python mutations out there, nothing is really going to make the names any easier for you. Plus it might not prove to be compatible with the Davies line fires, then we would just have another 1.000 threads questioning compatibility like we saw with the enchi pastels, axanthic lines and ghost lines. I think it's clearer and easier to remember that mojaves, lessers, butters and het Vin Russos are all compatible for the BEL complex, compared to all the different lines of hypos that for the longest time, seemed like everything you heard contradicted the last thing that was said about the hypo lines' compatibility. My point is, I think everyone who proves out a project should not assume it will be compatible with anything else, and should name it whatever he wants. Even if it does prove to be compatible it still won't be any easier to remember since we already have things that have the same or similar names that aren't compatible.
    What are these mojavas I keep hearing so much about?

    J. W. Exotics

    Reptile Incubators

  11. #49
    BPnet Veteran PythonWallace's Avatar
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    Re: Sulfur = Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by envy_ld50 View Post
    Fires are variable. Each Fire looks different in shade and pattern. I have done alot of research on fires and received information from Davies including pictures that show color changes in continued breeding. The fact that they may be different lines makes them no different. They are still the same morph.

    With what some breeders have said in this thread it would be okay for me to get a imported animal lets say a wide pattern Mojave that has very high blushing. Upon getting this new lineage animal from Africa I can call it the purple dragon! And anyone who sees the new purple dragon is now being misled (intentional or unintentional) because I didn't PROVE it to be different.

    I just don't see how anyone can be okay with saying hey it looks different so I believe it is different. Also on the topic of super cinny's and black pastels. They are different not only by lineage but by mutation characteristics. Cinny's produce different colors and their pattern is often more circular.

    If we want to argue that davies fires and Ember's sulfurs are different lines we would actually need to do blood tests to determine this how would anyone possibly know without it.
    How would that be misleading? If you import a snake that proves genetic, name it the purple dragon, and sell them all day long. I'd be interested in a new line of BEL complex snake like that.
    What are these mojavas I keep hearing so much about?

    J. W. Exotics

    Reptile Incubators

  12. #50
    BPnet Veteran SUPERBALLS's Avatar
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    Re: Sulfur = Fire

    blood test! sense when did we need that to determine genetics of ball python morphs, i dont think comparing fires and sulfers to cinnamons and blacks is to far off. like i said they also have differnt looks just like the cinny and black and there combos are different looking to, but still have the same super

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