Indiana Man Killed By 14ft Python

[snakey68]

Thanks for not yelling, Judy.

Amazingly, the government at least once has proven that it can do something like this. You can't own a hawk or falcon or other bird of prey without a federal permit. It's not easy or inexpensive to get one, nor should it be. These creatures require extremely specialized care, including very large enclosures, and that's expensive. The parallel is close: In a perfect world, the government would apply the same logic to big snakes. If you can't afford a couple hundred bucks and eight hours or so of education/testing to acquire a license, then you don't have enough money or wherewithal to handle an anaconda or a retic or a Burm or anything else that will soon need its own room in the house. Handled properly, such a program would virtually eliminate impulse buyers, and the biggest beneficiaries would be the snakes themselves, which is as it should be.

I know we don't do this sort of thing for dogs (which can maul and kill) or other kinds of pets, but snakes are different. They just are. Any of us who own them know that.

.

Good post ...I think the key point is definately "specialised care" and really at the end of the day we need to look at care of the animals in question, if we can get the government on board and prevent them being "illegal" in favour of some kind of registration most keepers would be happy to follow any kind of validation that allows them to follow their interest.

Its the impulse buying that does alot of harm further down the line when the animals in question are too much of a challenge for their respective keepers who bought it on impulse in the 1st place.

[digcolnagos]

You can't own a BP in Saskatchewan? Wow. On one level, that's silly. On another, I suppose it prevents a lot of snakes suffering at the hands of clueless owners. Still, there ought to be a way to own a BP or any other snake that's essentially harmless. I would happily pay a licensing fee to own my snake if the money for such a program went toward benefiting the species and ensuring responsible ownership.

How many other jurisdictions ban snake ownership, and to what species do the bans apply? Anyone know?

[Shnak_An'_Star]

theres that silly word "attack" again. its sad about the guy R.I.P, but yeah handling a 14 foot snake and doing something that makes it uncomfortable(treatment) at teh same time is very stupid. i just hope they dont kill the snake.

[JLC]

I agree 100% with Snakey and Digcolnagos about how ideal the licensing could be. But despite the fact that I'm a very optimistic person by nature...when it comes to expecting or anticipating anything done right by the government...well...pessimism rules the day.


So anyhow...this is my little pessimistic rant...please forgive.

The fact that there is that kind of federal licensing program in place for raptors is, in fact, rather encouraging. At the very least, it shows that that sort of program CAN be done. However, its extremely rare for anyone to have an irrational fear of a falcon diving out of the sky to attack their heads. And while some people don't particularly favor birds, I've never heard of anyone who actually loathes them. In general, they are considered "romantic" animals that are widely admired and evoke positive emotional responses.

Fact is, far too many people fear snakes. And/or loath them beyond reason. It takes a tremendous amount of effort, persistence, and persuasion just to bring an item to the floor of the house and senate for consideration.....and so much more to actually get that item passed into law. WHO in government cares that much? And cares enough not only to make that effort, but to overcome the enourmous mountain of public negative emotions associated with any bill that has to do with snakes. Nevermind the fact that such a bill would actually HELP the snake-fearing public....just the fact that it has something to do with snakes would send them into a tailspin of panic demanding that all snakes be outlawed and disposed of.

And if it did pass...who would care enough to set the infrastructure into place properly and keep it there? Maybe the first guy who got this ball rolling would do a good job with it...but a few years later when someone else moves into that "office"...will they care? I can see such an "office" being completely understaffed and underfunded....because who cares about snakes??? What senator or congressman is going to fight for funding for the snake licenses? One guy will be sitting in a little closet in some ancient government building and expected to hand out licenses for everyone in the country who wants to own a giant snake....and expected to carry out inspections to insure those permits are deserved........

Bah....sorry!!!! You see my point. As I said, I'm normally a very optimistic person, but not when it comes to the government being able to get much of anything done properly.

Thanks for letting me rant.....

[JimiSnakes]

You can't own a BP in Saskatchewan? Wow. On one level, that's silly. On another, I suppose it prevents a lot of snakes suffering at the hands of clueless owners. Still, there ought to be a way to own a BP or any other snake that's essentially harmless. I would happily pay a licensing fee to own my snake if the money for such a program went toward benefiting the species and ensuring responsible ownership.

How many other jurisdictions ban snake ownership, and to what species do the bans apply? Anyone know?

I know NY sucks when it comes to reptiles/snakes! Haha, they are pushing to make it illegal to get any snake over 10 ft here. Almost got it too. Retics, Burms, Condas, some monitors, etc are all banned without a license now. I want a burm badly too!

[mousch]

I know NY sucks when it comes to reptiles/snakes! Haha, they are pushing to make it illegal to get any snake over 10 ft here. Almost got it too. Retics, Burms, Condas, some monitors, etc are all banned without a license now. I want a burm badly too!

But you can at least get a license. I'd have to call myself a zoo or a farm to keep my snake. I am neither a zoo nor a farm!

[JimiSnakes]

But you can at least get a license. I'd have to call myself a zoo or a farm to keep my snake. I am neither a zoo nor a farm!

True, but it's hard to do! Nearly impossible if you weren't "grandfathered" into the deal. Even then some were turned down. My buddy brought his 16 ft Burmese into the DEA (or whatever it is) and handed it over...no cage...no bag...just the burm...all of a sudden they were more cooperative with him and he got his license within a few days.

[mousch]

hahaha that's one way to do it!

[snakey68]

I agree 100% with Snakey and Digcolnagos about how ideal the licensing could be. But despite the fact that I'm a very optimistic person by nature...when it comes to expecting or anticipating anything done right by the government...well...pessimism rules the day.


So anyhow...this is my little pessimistic rant...please forgive.

The fact that there is that kind of federal licensing program in place for raptors is, in fact, rather encouraging. At the very least, it shows that that sort of program CAN be done. However, its extremely rare for anyone to have an irrational fear of a falcon diving out of the sky to attack their heads. And while some people don't particularly favor birds, I've never heard of anyone who actually loathes them. In general, they are considered "romantic" animals that are widely admired and evoke positive emotional responses.

Fact is, far too many people fear snakes. And/or loath them beyond reason. It takes a tremendous amount of effort, persistence, and persuasion just to bring an item to the floor of the house and senate for consideration.....and so much more to actually get that item passed into law. WHO in government cares that much? And cares enough not only to make that effort, but to overcome the enourmous mountain of public negative emotions associated with any bill that has to do with snakes. Nevermind the fact that such a bill would actually HELP the snake-fearing public....just the fact that it has something to do with snakes would send them into a tailspin of panic demanding that all snakes be outlawed and disposed of.

And if it did pass...who would care enough to set the infrastructure into place properly and keep it there? Maybe the first guy who got this ball rolling would do a good job with it...but a few years later when someone else moves into that "office"...will they care? I can see such an "office" being completely understaffed and underfunded....because who cares about snakes??? What senator or congressman is going to fight for funding for the snake licenses? One guy will be sitting in a little closet in some ancient government building and expected to hand out licenses for everyone in the country who wants to own a giant snake....and expected to carry out inspections to insure those permits are deserved........

Bah....sorry!!!! You see my point. As I said, I'm normally a very optimistic person, but not when it comes to the government being able to get much of anything done properly.

Thanks for letting me rant.....

yeah Judy I can see exactly what your saying and I share your concerns , I too am an optimistic person in general until it comes to my own government which is not the most awe inspiring when it comes to getting things done right or indeed fair.

I guess the 1st best option IMO would be to get an organisation invloved that is respected (eg) in the UK we have RSPCA -Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and if a large body such as this was involved in and accepting of registration and monitoring of care then it would go some way to reducing hopefully government "foolish" perspectives.

The problem being money of course and funding of such an operation and again relying on the government to indeed care enough to put thier hands in the pocket deep enough would be a challenge.

I dont know what the answer is as your quite correct snakes in general dont have the same value in "cuteness" or interest as other animals.

My point was more in an ideal world scenario IMO, how we attain such a structure is a puzzle that will remain unfinished for some time I am sure.

Its a sad state of affairs ....much like our government.

[digcolnagos]

I agree 100% with Snakey and Digcolnagos about how ideal the licensing could be. But despite the fact that I'm a very optimistic person by nature...when it comes to expecting or anticipating anything done right by the government...well...pessimism rules the day.


So anyhow...this is my little pessimistic rant...please forgive.

The fact that there is that kind of federal licensing program in place for raptors is, in fact, rather encouraging. At the very least, it shows that that sort of program CAN be done. However, its extremely rare for anyone to have an irrational fear of a falcon diving out of the sky to attack their heads. And while some people don't particularly favor birds, I've never heard of anyone who actually loathes them. In general, they are considered "romantic" animals that are widely admired and evoke positive emotional responses.

Fact is, far too many people fear snakes. And/or loath them beyond reason. It takes a tremendous amount of effort, persistence, and persuasion just to bring an item to the floor of the house and senate for consideration.....and so much more to actually get that item passed into law. WHO in government cares that much? And cares enough not only to make that effort, but to overcome the enourmous mountain of public negative emotions associated with any bill that has to do with snakes. Nevermind the fact that such a bill would actually HELP the snake-fearing public....just the fact that it has something to do with snakes would send them into a tailspin of panic demanding that all snakes be outlawed and disposed of.

And if it did pass...who would care enough to set the infrastructure into place properly and keep it there? Maybe the first guy who got this ball rolling would do a good job with it...but a few years later when someone else moves into that "office"...will they care? I can see such an "office" being completely understaffed and underfunded....because who cares about snakes??? What senator or congressman is going to fight for funding for the snake licenses? One guy will be sitting in a little closet in some ancient government building and expected to hand out licenses for everyone in the country who wants to own a giant snake....and expected to carry out inspections to insure those permits are deserved........

Bah....sorry!!!! You see my point. As I said, I'm normally a very optimistic person, but not when it comes to the government being able to get much of anything done properly.

Thanks for letting me rant.....

You're welcome. You seem to have an excellent grasp of government and the way the world really works. What snakes need is a good PR campaign, someone to point out that "Don't Tread On Me" came before the bald eagle and the Star Spangled Banner. Appeal to patriotism. That always seems to work at the political level. Until then, all that can really be done, I guess, is for folks like us to put pressure on irresponsible pet stores wherever and whenever we find them. If they're not posting signs about how big these animals can get and the intricacies of caring for them, if they're giving out inaccurate information, if they're putting profits ahead of good husbandry, then we should all be complaining to the headquarters in the case of franchised operations and to the Humane Society and animal-protective folks if owners refuse to improve. We should be contacting the media if we find reptiles in squalor. (Among other things, I worry when I see stores with more than one Burm or red-tail boa in stock--makes me think they'll be less than honest with potential buyers simply to reduce inventory). Now that I think about it, perhaps there should be a code of conduct, a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, so to speak, that pet stores could post if they met certain standards established by a reputable national herp society (is there such a thing?) Publicize the importance of dealing only with breeders and stores that meet these standards. Maybe something like that would work. In short, if the government can't or won't do it (and Judy's right, I think), perhaps private enterprise can do the next best thing and take advantage of opportunities--even the recent death of the Croc Hunter might work--to educate the public.