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  1. #11
    Don't Push My Buttons JLC's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Man Killed By 14ft Python

    Quote Originally Posted by digcolnagos
    OK, I'm gonna get yelled at here, but...

    ...

    Apologies for length, but I don't think sales of Burms or reticulateds or anacondas or even red-tailed boas should be unrestricted. Unfortunately, there's a whole lot of humans out there with less sense than a snake, ....
    Hi. First off...we try real hard not to yell if someone is merely expressing an opinion. Although if someone is blatantly rude and/or insensitive, then sometimes our feathers may get a tad ruffled. I think you were neither rude nor insensitive...so no yelling from me.

    That being said, I did want to point out one thing you mentioned that makes me go "hmmmmm..." Yes indeed, there are a whole lot of humans out there with less sense than a snake. They also drive cars. And own dogs that they allow to become vicious animals. Or own dogs/cats that they allow to roam the streets to create thousands of unwanted puppies/kittes and go feral. Some of them even own guns! And any number of other things that are far more dangerous, destructive, and far more common...than owning a giant snake.

    Personally, I don't agree with laws against them...because then where do they stop? 10'? 8'? 6'? How many of us are infatuated with Sheree's 8' rat snakes? Are they deadly? Hardly. I also think that while licensing seems like a good idea on the surface, the amount of beurocratic red-tape it would generate could get to be a nightmare...leaving deserving people unable to obtain one, while idiots still manage to slip through the cracks and get them.

    The key, I believe, is education. Never, ever, ever stop trying to teach those you come in contact with. Especially the people who sell the animals. Work with them as best as you can...to help them learn the benefits of educating their customers. Certainly there won't be any instant changes...no easy fixes. And no matter what, there will always be the idiots who buy something dangerous and do something stupid with it.
    -- Judy

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  3. #12
    BPnet Veteran brainman1000's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Man Killed By 14ft Python

    I honestly think that anyone who sells a large snake should have a little more discretion about who they are giving it to. By placing that snake into the hands of an irresponsible owner, they are endangering their lives and anyone else that may come in contact with that snake. I think it is way too easy to obtain one and that they should be registered.

  4. #13
    BPnet Veteran greenmonkey51's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Man Killed By 14ft Python

    Not sound insensitive but its one death. Just because one guy dies because of his retic doesn't mean we have to change everything. About 150 people die each year from falling coconut but we're not digging up every palm tree. You can talk all about sellers responsiblilty but when your living comes from a pet shop you'll see it a bit differently.

  5. #14
    BPnet Veteran brainman1000's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Man Killed By 14ft Python

    Quote Originally Posted by greenmonkey51
    Not sound insensitive but its one death. Just because one guy dies because of his retic doesn't mean we have to change everything. About 150 people die each year from falling coconut but we're not digging up every palm tree. You can talk all about sellers responsiblilty but when your living comes from a pet shop you'll see it a bit differently.
    It's not just one guy that has died. In Florida they are having problems in the everglades with people releasing large snakes into the wild because they got too big for them. Those snakes are begining to compete with the natural eco-system and in some cases becoming the top predator.

  6. #15
    BPnet Veteran shhhli's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Man Killed By 14ft Python

    Quote Originally Posted by greenmonkey51
    Not sound insensitive but its one death. Just because one guy dies because of his retic doesn't mean we have to change everything. About 150 people die each year from falling coconut but we're not digging up every palm tree. You can talk all about sellers responsiblilty but when your living comes from a pet shop you'll see it a bit differently.
    So the fact one has to make a living from a petshop excuses them from having to properly inform the buyer and possibly refuse sale to someone with obvious mis/no information?

  7. #16
    BPnet Lifer ladywhipple02's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Man Killed By 14ft Python

    Ugh, why did this have to happen in Indiana... my parents are going to flip, and then lecture me about how my snakes will kill me (my mother in particular doesn't understand the difference between a six foot Kinky and a 14 ft. Retic).

    And then I get to point out that handling any snake over 8-10ft. by yourself really isn't a smart idea.

  8. #17
    BPnet Veteran snakey68's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Man Killed By 14ft Python

    its sad news indeed any death by a captive snake but its not the 1st and certainly wont be the last either unfortunately.

    Regarding licensing of giant snakes I am all for it myself although I appreciate what Judy stated above which are very valid points, my point and main one is for the health and well being of the snakes 1st and foremost.

    By regulating and licensing snakes I think the benefits would outweigh the negative aspects. For example I would like to see animal welfare being involved in an auditing type of capacity in which they know who has snakes and are able to maintain communication with these people to ensure the snakes are kept in proper husbandry.

    In this way people would have to take on the care for snakes knowing that are legally bound to provide adequate care and upkeep of the animals and ensure they are meeting the standards required. I understand the concerns regarding the "beurocratic red tape scenario" but if a proper and fair system is in place there should be reasonable ability to comply with the basics.

    There are many people who do not make any serious effort to provide for their snakes and these kind of people would be "weeded" out leaving the serious keeper with a genuine interest left to generate interest and share correct information.

    Animals that require specific care and attention are not in same care bracket as a companion type pet like a cat or dog for example that are free roaming and dont rely on us as much as a reptile does. For that reason I am more in inclined to be fore some sort of regulatory enforcement that ensures the welfare and well being of snakes and or reptiles in general.

    I am not talking strict enforcement but more in line with a registration when purchasing an animal like a snake that puts you in a position of responsibility of that animal to give it what it requires in a safe and healthy environment.

    I do agree that education is at the fore front in terms of ensuring snakes are living a healthy life and registration would allow targeting of people that are keeping snakes instead of just hoping to reach people by virtue of "putting it out there".

    It's just my opinion on how I would like to see snake keeping progress as I feel currently anyone can buy a snake and keep it in anyway they like regardless of the negative aspects it inflicts upon the animals in question.

    It saddens me that so many people are purchasing snakes and there is nothing in place to ensure the animal is kept in an environment befitting to its requirements.

    there are many other aspects as well we could go into and I have just touched on one of them and I apologise for possibly going off topic a bit from the threads original concept.

    I think there are valid arguements for and against but as I said it all boils down to whats best for the snakes IMO and registration and some form of "fair" licensing is the way to go.........shoot me or whatever its just my take on it.








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  9. #18
    BPnet Veteran mousch's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Man Killed By 14ft Python

    Why did neither of these news stories make it very clear that he should NOT have been in that shed alone with a retic? It says his family was there, why did none of them go with him? I'm really confused why the news story did not point out that he was neglecting his own safety, and his family was also given the chance to correct his mistake and did not do so.

    I don't think the answer is to make retics illegal. Lawmakers don't know when to stop, and this is why my BP is illegal in my home province (Not where I live right now but where I may move). Now that he is illegal, nobody wants to deal with changing it.
    I'm definitely all for licensing - I will buy the license, take the tests, make the phonecalls. If my upkeep is correct and my snake is healthy and docile, I have nothing to hide from any regulatory board. (They'd probably get tired of hearing me tell them about my snake ALL THE TIME!!)

    It reflects very poorly on us when a herper dies by a snake, even though it's on the news so rarely. It seems nobody realises that it is news BECAUSE it happens so rarely, not because it is the norm. I'd love to get a larger snake (probably a burmese or a retic) because I want to do education like Rusty does, but how can I do that if my collection becomes illegal?
    Very sad story for him and his family.
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  10. #19
    Registered User digcolnagos's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Man Killed By 14ft Python

    Thanks for not yelling, Judy.

    You're right, there will always be idiots. Unfortunately, you can't fix stupid. That applies, perhaps even especially, to the Legislature. I can just see it: What starts out being a bill to require licenses for retic's and Burms and anacondas ends up being a money-generation thing that applies to BP's, corns, rats. One of the problems is visceral fear of snakes--I think we've all seen it when we show our pets. Some folks just can't get past the Garden of Eden.

    In a perfect world, though, the government would raise the threshold of entry for really big snakes and leave the BP owners of the world alone (although impulse buying certainly is a problem with all types of snakes). The difference, I think, is that if a BP or a Kingsnake gets loose, no one really much cares, because these species have never hurt anything bigger than a rat. But if a 20-foot "maneater" shows up in a park or someone's lawn, so do the television cameras, and the accompanying publicity is bad for everyone, including snakes of all stripes.

    Amazingly, the government at least once has proven that it can do something like this. You can't own a hawk or falcon or other bird of prey without a federal permit. It's not easy or inexpensive to get one, nor should it be. These creatures require extremely specialized care, including very large enclosures, and that's expensive. The parallel is close: In a perfect world, the government would apply the same logic to big snakes. If you can't afford a couple hundred bucks and eight hours or so of education/testing to acquire a license, then you don't have enough money or wherewithal to handle an anaconda or a retic or a Burm or anything else that will soon need its own room in the house. Handled properly, such a program would virtually eliminate impulse buyers, and the biggest beneficiaries would be the snakes themselves, which is as it should be.

    I know we don't do this sort of thing for dogs (which can maul and kill) or other kinds of pets, but snakes are different. They just are. Any of us who own them know that.

    Such a program might be a pain for responsible owners who've already demonstrated their capacity to care for these creatures, but it's a darn sight better than outright bans, which is a real possibility in many jurisdictions. Of course, it's not likely that the government will show the same compassion for snakes as it does red-tailed hawks and other falcons.

  11. #20
    BPnet Veteran mousch's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Man Killed By 14ft Python

    This is a really great plan, but I don't know if any legislature in North America cares about snakes and snake owners enough to set up all of this infrastructure around it - paying to advertise the program, paying instructors to teach the class, paying to create and print materials, etc.

    But I know how important it is. In Saskatchewan pretty much anything but King, Rat and Corn snakes are illegal!
    1.0 Ball Python, Orey
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