Craigslist: What is this guy??

[RissaEst]

Sounds like someone is grumpy pants I wouldn't mind if you posted the emails. I offered you help to save money and you think you know quite a bit on the topic so I let you do your own thing. I've worked in animal care for years, and have worked as a vet tech. I was trying to help at no cost to you.

Just because I don't want to drive 100 miles and pay ferry fare on the way doesn't mean that I'm "butthurt". Just means that its not worth it for me. Jeez Luise.

[SnowShredder]

Sounds like someone is grumpy pants I wouldn't mind if you posted the emails. I offered you help to save money and you think you know quite a bit on the topic so I let you do your own thing. I've worked in animal care for years, and have worked as a vet tech. I was trying to help at no cost to you.

Just because I don't want to drive 100 miles and pay ferry fare on the way doesn't mean that I'm "butthurt". Just means that its not worth it for me. Jeez Luise.

No, that is not why I think you are butthurt. I completely understand that you live far away and would cost you more.
My thinking was is that this entire time you have been upset that I got the snake. You can ask the guy, I lived about 2 miles from him and drove to his house. It was a much better deal for him. I had no idea you wanted this ball, I saw your thread a couple hours after bringing him home.

To me, it was completely unnecessary to post with the intention of making me look like a flipper. Technically I am flipping this snake, but the only reason I am is for a good reason. I'm not selling it for more than it is actually worth, however. I am not trying to cheat anyone. And I actually offered him for what you were going to originally buy him for.
So yes, I am grumpy over this. But only because you felt like you needed others to back you up.
I gave my side of the story and who knows maybe everyone will agree with you. I will post the emails either way so everyone can get a full understanding.

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Clorrissa Estrella <d5a031cdac103586aa4ee46d25733a24@reply.craigslist.org>	4:42 PM (3 hours ago)
to s47sw-38744297.

Hey it looks like you are selling Fluffy! This is the person from bp.net that was going to buy him and I posted the craigslist thread. You got him for $125. Can we work something out paaalease? Thank you!

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Original craigslist post:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pet/3874429719.html
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Leslie Parks <leslie.parks22@gmail.com>	5:03 PM (3 hours ago)
to Clorrissa

Yes we can possibly work something out. I'm selling him because my dog just tore his other ACL and am in need of the money now...if I can't get more for him than what I paid then I was just going to keep him. I could do $150 though your original price? Just the snake

Clorrissa Estrella <d5a031cdac103586aa4ee46d25733a24@reply.craigslist.org>	5:52 PM (2 hours ago)
to s47sw-38744297.

Can you give me more information on your dog? Breed, size, symptoms and when it happened. I might be able to save you a bunch on vet bills. Vets try and squeeze ever penny out of you.

I can't afford to drive all the way to where you are and pay $150. The reason I was paying $150 (he was going to give me him for much cheaper) was for the snake, cages with everything AND he was meeting me at South Center Mall. I live on Vashon and its $25 just to leave the island. If you meet me at South Center Mall or close to there I can give you the full $150?

Let me know!

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From: craigslist 3874429719 <s47sw-3874429719@comm.craigslist.org>
To: d5a031cdac103586aa4ee46d25733a24@reply.craigslist.org
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Mojave






http://craigslist.org/mf/1c9852702d0...0ef953387a11.1

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http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pet/3874429719.html
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Clorrissa Estrella <d5a031cdac103586aa4ee46d25733a24@reply.craigslist.org>	6:07 PM (2 hours ago)
to s47sw-38744297.

Also about your pup:

Did you bring him to the vet? Did they suggest surgery? If so what kind of surgery did they suggest?

I work as an animal care giver and I do a LOT of vet tech work. I have worked with a couple dogs who had torn their ACL so know a bit about it

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From: craigslist 3874429719 <s47sw-3874429719@comm.craigslist.org>
To: d5a031cdac103586aa4ee46d25733a24@reply.craigslist.org
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Mojave







http://craigslist.org/mf/1c9852702d0...0ef953387a11.1

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http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pet/3874429719.html
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Leslie Parks <leslie.parks22@gmail.com>	6:36 PM (1 hour ago)
to Clorrissa

He was diagnosed with bilateral ACL tearing, they're definitely not squeezing the pennies out. His ligament shredded and now his other one went. He's a rottweiler and very large. I did a lot of research on it to make sure I was getting exactly what he needs. I actually have a thread on bp.net on the first knee.
To my understanding when I spoke to the guy he said he didn't want to do that deal at all.
You would have gotten a great deal from him, but that's because he didn't know everythings value. I offered a better deal and that's why he sold it to me.
I can afford my dogs surgery because I have insurance, but everything has to be paid up front which is why I was selling "fluffy" but to me it is not worth selling that ball if I sell it for the amount that I paid, I would rather keep it.
I'm not trying to rub you the wrong way, I have that snake up for $225 and I was willing to sell to you for $150 because you are from one of my favorite sites. Anyone else then I'm probably not going to go lower than $200. Keep in mind I don't need to sell this snake, I could just really use the money, and only will if its a great offer.

Clorrissa Estrella <d5a031cdac103586aa4ee46d25733a24@reply.craigslist.org>	6:51 PM (1 hour ago)
to s47sw-38744297.

If he has had surgery already then you know what to expect. However, there is a method of rehabilitation that will not include surgery, pain meds or anything.


When they tear their ACL the vets want to do surgery because thats the money maker. There is a ton of literature saying how the surgeries are usually worse in the long run. But how would the vets make money without doing surgery? The healing process after a surgery is rarely done correctly because pain meds make the dog think its ok to walk on its bad leg. After 8-12 weeks it looks like the dog is fine but really? It's not fully healed. If you take the time (which will take months) you can rehabilitate your dog properly without spending thousands of dollars and risking his health in the future. You just need to restrict his activity and do exercises with him. Thats all a torn ligament really needs.

If you have done the research you will be able to find the information on it no problem.

Good luck with your dog.


I'm not going to drive all the way to Maryville just for the snake. Ultimately it's going to end up costing me over $200 which is just not worth it. Good luck selling him too. Thank you for the offer on selling him for $150.



ps. The guy with the snake asked his wife if they needed to head south for any reason. They had a funeral that day that they were going to attend that was south. He was making the trip anyways..

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From: craigslist 3874429719 <s47sw-3874429719@comm.craigslist.org>
To: d5a031cdac103586aa4ee46d25733a24@reply.craigslist.org

Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Mojave






http://craigslist.org/mf/a7a337acfb8...35ba71a5251f.1

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http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pet/3874429719.html
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Leslie Parks <leslie.parks22@gmail.com>	7:02 PM (1 hour ago)
to Clorrissa

I did extensive research on each surgery type and homeopathic remedies. My rott is 1 year old which is why I chose TPLO. Its proven the best for young dogs. Any other surgery is more temporary and unless the dog is old its not really a good idea because eventually it will give out again. The homeopathic ways only are to make your dog more comfortable, but they will always be in pain, by loosening the joint and tightening the muscles. It CANNOT repair a ligament that is torn. Ligaments do not repair themselves.
Thank you for trying to offer help but I have made the best decision I possibly can for my dog to ensure he lives a long and pain free life.
Also, I did not take the vets information word for word. I did my own research the the other options were not really options in my situation. I know about the pain meds and etc, again thank you, but I got it

[RissaEst]

It's hard to tell how someone feels over the internet by just reading through the text. Your right I was very bummed that he was nabbed up, but also didn't mind because he went to a good home But now your going all weird on me and making assumptions. If anything I WAS upset at Fluffys original owner. He had said a lot of things and we exchanged texts for a few days. After I found out he was sold, I honestly totally forgot about him that day. Until today.

I posted here hoping that you would get this message AND I emailed you just in case. I have met people who NEVER check their email after posting on craigslist >_<

So take a deep breath! I'm not upset. I'm not mad. I'm not "butthurt". You shouldn't be either.

End of online shenanigans

[Mephibosheth1]

@Rissa—as a vet tech student myself (and I admit that I don't know everything) I would caution against proposing solutions without knowing all the pertinent facts regarding the patient. While veterinarians may look for ways to make money, they do go to school for 8+ years to learn how to make diagnoses, and they do know how to do what's in the best interest of the animal. Also, without the supervision of a veterinarian, even homeopathic remedies can cause damage, especially in something as severe as an anterior cruciate ligament tear.

@Snow shredder—I hope your dog's surgery goes well. As long as you follow the advice of the veterinarian as best you can, things should turn out fine. Especially if you have gone through this before...you know the drill. Let me know how everything goes; I'm always interested in success stories in veterinary medicine

[SnowShredder]

Here is the thread that I will keep updated. This time around I will try to focus more on details and pictures of what's going on. I have videos of the before and after of his first surgery...and I will take videos currently. I'll get those up asap

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...6-Large-breeds

[RissaEst]

@Mephibosheth1
Unnecessary surgery is never good. I did not advise homeopathic medications, I simply suggested not using pain meds in the non-surgical rehabilitation. The pain is natures way to tell the dog, "Hey, this hurts so don't use it." With proper supervision and precautions, a torn ligament can be healed by specific exercises and monitoring of very controlled activity. It takes longer but is less invasive and less things can go wrong. Vets suggest surgery right away. If you monitor a dog for about 8 weeks and see NO improvement THEN surgery will be the only option. It does NOT need to be done right away. I can go into more detail but whats the point?

I have worked with dogs that have gone the non-surgical route and I have worked with dogs who HAVE gone the surgical route. The dogs who have gone the non-surgical way have far less (if any) arthritis than the ones who have had surgery. The ones who have had surgery need to take tons of medications to keep the arthritis at bay. I am not saying that this is true in every case! There are success and failure stories on both sides. I just don't believe in paying for something that isn't necessary and not necessarily better.

I just thought I would try to save Ms. Parks money. I didn't ask for her to lower the price (after her very gracious 33% discount) more than she already had. I love animals and just wanted to help.

[SnowShredder]

@Mephibosheth1
Unnecessary surgery is never good. I did not advise homeopathic medications, I simply suggested not using pain meds in the non-surgical rehabilitation. The pain is natures way to tell the dog, "Hey, this hurts so don't use it." With proper supervision and precautions, a torn ligament can be healed by specific exercises and monitoring of very controlled activity. It takes longer but is less invasive and less things can go wrong. Vets suggest surgery right away. If you monitor a dog for about 8 weeks and see NO improvement THEN surgery will be the only option. It does NOT need to be done right away. I can go into more detail but whats the point?

I have worked with dogs that have gone the non-surgical route and I have worked with dogs who HAVE gone the surgical route. The dogs who have gone the non-surgical way have far less (if any) arthritis than the ones who have had surgery. The ones who have had surgery need to take tons of medications to keep the arthritis at bay. I am not saying that this is true in every case! There are success and failure stories on both sides. I just don't believe in paying for something that isn't necessary and not necessarily better.

I just thought I would try to save Ms. Parks money. I didn't ask for her to lower the price (after her very gracious 33% discount) more than she already had. I love animals and just wanted to help.

I don't understand where you are getting this information on torn ACLs. Ligaments do not repair themselves. In humans they will do surgery to repair the ligament, but in a canine it is much more humane and makes more sense to in a way that will replace the ligament itself. TPLO screws two metal plates into each side of the knee and makes it so the ligament is not even needed. The less invasive surgery is really only an option for older dogs. It is pretty much tying a wire around the joints to hold them together and it will hold for a few years. any and all homeopathic methods for this type of injury only will reduce pain but I'm not about to put my 1 year old doh through a decade of pain until the day he dies.

[RissaEst]

I don't understand where you are getting this information on torn ACLs.

I just posted (you even quoted it) that I have worked with dogs on both sides of the spectrum. More specific? I'll give you an example of each.

One is an Akita who had the surgery (TPLO) when he was 5. The dog is now 8. He has to take Demerol, fish oil and glucosamine amongst other medications daily.

Another is a young Black Lab who tore both her ACLs and that is the reason I was hired to take care of her. I have seen from day one the extreme measures that have been taken to keep a constant eye on her and to rehabilitate her. She is absolutely healed 9 months later with no lameness.

It's your choice and you have chosen surgery. Ok, thats great! It's you and your dogs lives not mine. Like I keep repeating over and over I was just trying to help. I am going off of real life experience. Not through someone who makes their living off of selling their surgeries and pills. I agree it is more humane in the short run for sure. Not always for the long run...

[SnowShredder]

I just posted (you even quoted it) that I have worked with dogs on both sides of the spectrum. More specific? I'll give you an example of each.

One is an Akita who had the surgery (TPLO) when he was 5. The dog is now 8. He has to take Demerol, fish oil and glucosamine amongst other medications daily.

Another is a young Black Lab who tore both her ACLs and that is the reason I was hired to take care of her. I have seen from day one the extreme measures that have been taken to keep a constant eye on her and to rehabilitate her. She is absolutely healed 9 months later with no lameness.

It's your choice and you have chosen surgery. Ok, thats great! It's you and your dogs lives not mine. Like I keep repeating over and over I was just trying to help. I am going off of real life experience. Not through someone who makes their living off of selling their surgeries and pills. I agree it is more humane in the short run for sure. Not always for the long run...

I just explained to you that I chose the best long run decision. Your example about the akita is not a good one because my dog has not been on medication since his surgery. He's been better than ever. Glucosamine and fish oil is used to loosen joints. It eases pain. Demerol is a pain killer which they should NEVER need if they had TPLO after it heals. Yes, my dog needed it for the first 2 weeks. Refer to the pictures I posted post op. Of course if you just cut in their bone they need it at the beginning. He was never addicted and he never relied on them. He never took more than needed to simply relieve his pain.

I do not believe that lab healed after 2 torn ACLs. Seriously, ligaments don't repair themselves like bones or muscles.

[RissaEst]

-_- Ok. You win. Your right I'm wrong. You can sing the "I was right and you were wrong" song. I am a liar. I made everything up. There is no other way than surgery. Your way is the only way. Torn ligaments can't be fixed without surgery because only modern medicine can fix it. Back before surgery was an option there was nothing you could do. Your 21 and know everything there is to know. Now you have closure and should never think of this thread again because I am totally wrong and you just won an online victory. Congrats.

Have a nice day.