ASF Prodcution Stopped After Only 1 Litter

[Shanna]

I have a 1.3 group that I picked up in July and they had their first litter of babies in late October and last litter about 6ish weeks ago. Each female has had one litter ranging in size from 8-12 pups. I have them in a 10 gallon glass tank and feed a mix of Mazuri, bird seed, occasional veggies, & sometimes dry cat food (this was recommended for added protein to me after a newborn pup was eaten, I had no more pups eaten after I added it). They are kept indoors and are on aspen that I change every 5-8 days and I clean the pee corner once between cleanings. I do have 2 females from their last litter in the tank as well, I plan to move them to a rat breeder cage once I get another male (I had mistakenly fed off the male and have one on order).

They are good parents, the male is huge, & have a fairly decent disposition. Is this normal to have a production pause like this after 1st litters? Or is it normal for my male to become disinterested in the females? None of the females look pregnant at all.

I feed these guys to my 2.6 balls, all of which are 2012 bps, except for a 3 year old mouser, who is not interested in ASFs at all.

I also have a trio of mice that are producing perfectly.

I posted this question on another forum and had one reply to feed them off. I really don't want to start over, but I will if I need to. I'm hoping there's something obvious to one of the group members that I'm doing wrong. Maybe I could play them some Barry White.

Any suggestions?

[youbeyouibei]

I've only just started a colony of ASF's but from what research I've done, it's important for the male to have enough room to be able to pursue the female(s) prior to breeding them. You mentioned 1.3 in a 10 gallon tank...is that all you have in there are your breeders or are there pups/weaners in there as well? Crowding might be an issue, as could temperature as glass tanks don't ventilate well and too many bodies in too small an area could be making it too hot. I keep mine at a range of 78 to 83 degress, as they're in the same room as my snakes and that's the ambient temps in there. So far mine have been doing great at those temps and are producing just fine. Any tumor growths noted on any of the breeders or anything unusual like that? The breeder I bought mine from said he feeds his raw organic kale greens a few times a week and the vitamin A helps to keep them healthy with no tumors whatsoever after he made that change. Do the females have a box or "den" area they can hide in to give birth? I don't know that they would be capable of electing to come into heat or not but it might be that environmental stress(es) are keeping them from cycling as they should if they don't have somewhere they feel comfortable giving birth. How old are all of your breeders? I rotate my Norways out ever 6-8 months or so as far as retiring breeders; some go a little longer but when their production drops off, they get retired. From what I've read and found talking with other keepers, a year or so is about the max for soft furs as well as far as females producing. Is it a high foot traffic area that might be stressing them out? Cat, dog, etc. bugging them? That's weird for them to just up and quit like that unless it's age or some outside stress that's caused them to cease production like that. Hope that helps and sorry can't say one way or the other what the issue is; good luck!

[Shanna]

The room I keep them in stays around 70 degrees and stays pretty quiet. I keep them in an open front cabinet that can be closed. I have made a couple changes since originally posting. I removed the last two offspring, they're now in a rat breeder cage, and added the hide back (I had originally had one, but hadn't replaced it after a cleaning). There aren't any tumors on any of them, I will start to offer Kale, we always have it around for the beardie. They were all born in July.

I was leaving the weaners in the tank, but not for long. 7 of 8 of my balls are 2012 hatchlings, so the weaner/hopper size was just the right feeding size. I

I think I've read everything online that I can find, it's really frustrating. I almost wonder if the #1 matriarch in the group is too much of a queen bee and has stopped breeding. I've read mixed things on different message boards, so I'm not sure. The next step is to remove the bossy female and then look into making the tub from the ASF stickies to keep them in.

It was such a pain to find these guys, they have a decent temperament, and it's hard for me to get more.

I'll update this thread in a couple weeks, hopefully with positive results.

Thanks!

[youbeyouibei]

The room I keep them in stays around 70 degrees and stays pretty quiet. I keep them in an open front cabinet that can be closed. I have made a couple changes since originally posting. I removed the last two offspring, they're now in a rat breeder cage, and added the hide back (I had originally had one, but hadn't replaced it after a cleaning). There aren't any tumors on any of them, I will start to offer Kale, we always have it around for the beardie. They were all born in July.

I was leaving the weaners in the tank, but not for long. 7 of 8 of my balls are 2012 hatchlings, so the weaner/hopper size was just the right feeding size. I

I think I've read everything online that I can find, it's really frustrating. I almost wonder if the #1 matriarch in the group is too much of a queen bee and has stopped breeding. I've read mixed things on different message boards, so I'm not sure. The next step is to remove the bossy female and then look into making the tub from the ASF stickies to keep them in.

It was such a pain to find these guys, they have a decent temperament, and it's hard for me to get more.

I'll update this thread in a couple weeks, hopefully with positive results.

Thanks!

That one has me stumped, I don't know and sorry I can't be of more help. That's weird that they would just up and quit like that, especially at that age and after having proven that they're able to breed/produce. That very well could be that the matriarch is impeding the younger females from being bred or that they're all cycling in their heat cycles off of her and for whatever reason she isn't cycling or allowing the male(s) to tend to the younger girls. Jealous much on her part?! Hell hath no fury, lol! Hahahahaha! I'm sorry, I couldn't resist! Not making light of your situation, I know that has to be frustrating, sorry. I say pull a group from your originals if you can and start a new colony of 1.2 or more if you have that number available and leave the matriarch to her own devices. See if that solves the issue or if that isn't possible, if you're able to hold off feeding some of the weaners long enough to get them up to breeding age/size, start a new group with them. I know the ASF's are fairly new to the U.S. as far as keeping/raising them goes so there isn't a lot of consensus when a situation like yours comes up. Hopefully someone with more experience than what I have will chime in soon and offer more than guesses. Good luck and hope things even out for you with them; I'll be following this thread if something similar comes up with mine in the future. Take care!

[Wapadi]

How often are you cleaning their tank? Mine started producing twice as much when I stopped messing with them. I was cleaning every 3-4 days like my rats bc I have to keep them in the same room as the snakes and was worried about smell. Now I only clean the ASFs every other week. And occasionally I pick up the pee corners....And I have a ton of little ASFs all the time!

Thanks for the Kale tip!

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

In my opinion a 10 gallon is way too small.. I keep my 1.3 colonies in large sterelite storage bins made into rat tubs. (See how-to thread in the stickies section)

As for males, I always have the best luck using a male that has grown up with the females. Get your current group I to a bigger tank or tub and use the 10 gallon as a grow-out tank for now. You should have stopped feeding off your stock once you realized you weren't getting anymore litters.

I start new colonies about once a year to ensure production. I separate out a new 1.3 colony group which has grown up together in the grow-out tub, into their own enclosure. Once they are producing their own young I will feed off one of the older colonies.

I'm not sure why yours seem to have stopped producing but I bet if you get them into a larger enclosure, give them a large running wheel, chew logs, and keep supplementing them with high protein dog or cat food, you should see an improvement.

[Don]

I keep 1.2 and 1.3 in space equivalent to a ten gallon tank and have 40+ groups going. I only have a couple of groups that do not produce well - they get fed off. I think the space is fine. Make sure that they are in an area of low traffic, have plenty of food and water. They should be fine. If not, then you just may have a couple females that don't produce well.